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Old 02-10-2013, 12:28 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by snow12 View Post
Another update!

I have been doing my research on Automated Manual transmissions and found some other vehicles that have them. I knew the VW and Audi cars had them but I also found the Hyundai Veloster did as well! So on to do a test on drivability with the help of the good old "test drive" .

The VW GTI drove like a dream! This thing shifted unlike anything have experienced, it was great! The only thing in common was the shake when you first started moving; after that there was non of the "normal" grinding sounds at all and this thing knocked the shifts out like clockwork! Super quick!

The Veloster is a freaking weird car let me just say that But it also has a DCT and again did not make the grinding noises that Ford states are normal. The Hyundai is definitely slower at shifting compared to the VW, it feels more like a regular automatic transmission in that regard. It also has that same shake when you first start but thats all!

Ford is full of s**t when they say this is normal because its an Automated Manual! Its not normal for Automated Manuals as a whole its only normal for the Ford one which is s**t (at least mine) compared to the VW one! Heck I would even say the Hyundai one was a bit better, the Focus did sift quicker though but definitely not as smooth.

Still don't like either of these cars though! The Focus design appeals to me more however the VW engine and transmission are excellent!
The VW is not comparable as it uses a wet clutch and not a dry clutch. The Veloster's DCT is not as good as the one in the Ford, at least when its working properly as mine has done for over 9800 miles now.

Mine shifts smoothly and makes no grinding noises, so if yours does then something is wrong with it.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:33 AM   #112
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The VW is not comparable as it uses a wet clutch and not a dry clutch. The Veloster's DCT is not as good as the one in the Ford, at least when its working properly as mine has done for over 9800 miles now.

Mine shifts smoothly and makes no grinding noises, so if yours does then something is wrong with it.
Does a wet clutch make a huge difference? I don't mean to sound like an a** I really am asking a question I saw they explained the two types online but as far as the differences drivability wise advantages etc I am still clueless!

The Hyundai one definitely was smoother but the shifts were more "sloppy" I guess you could say.

On a side note the Velosters engine sounds like a lawnmower when you start it! Hahaha I am not kidding!
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Old 02-10-2013, 01:12 AM   #113
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Does a wet clutch make a huge difference? I don't mean to sound like an a** I really am asking a question I saw they explained the two types online but as far as the differences drivability wise advantages etc I am still clueless!

The Hyundai one definitely was smoother but the shifts were more "sloppy" I guess you could say.

On a side note the Velosters engine sounds like a lawnmower when you start it! Hahaha I am not kidding!
Yes a wet clutch makes a huge difference, its more analogous to a Torque converter in terms of smoothing out the transfer of power from the engine, at the expense of being less efficient.

A wet clutch can handle a higher torque load than a dry clutch for a couple of reasons, one the fluid can absorb heat, and two it doesn't burn up as quickly while slipping in oil. The wet clutch smooths out the power pulses by dampening them in oil.

A dry clutch is the same type of friction material used in a standard manual transmission for an automobile, and they don't take too well to being abused by slipping the clutch.

A properly functioning dry clutch DCT can still be fairly smooth, but it won't be quite the same due to the clutches not being soaked in oil.

Also there have been similar complaints lobbied at the Hyundai DCT, as well as pretty much all dry clutch automated manuals under certain conditions.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:03 AM   #114
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Yes a wet clutch makes a huge difference, its more analogous to a Torque converter in terms of smoothing out the transfer of power from the engine, at the expense of being less efficient.

A wet clutch can handle a higher torque load than a dry clutch for a couple of reasons, one the fluid can absorb heat, and two it doesn't burn up as quickly while slipping in oil. The wet clutch smooths out the power pulses by dampening them in oil.

A dry clutch is the same type of friction material used in a standard manual transmission for an automobile, and they don't take too well to being abused by slipping the clutch.

A properly functioning dry clutch DCT can still be fairly smooth, but it won't be quite the same due to the clutches not being soaked in oil.

Also there have been similar complaints lobbied at the Hyundai DCT, as well as pretty much all dry clutch automated manuals under certain conditions.
Thanks for the explanation I guess you can chalk me up to being a wet clutch fan then! Do you think maintenance was the reason Ford chose a dry clutch? The VW has to be changed every 30,000 to be honest though I don't see that as being excessive and would help the clutch last longer.

I was in no way saying the Hyundai DCT was all around better than the Ford DCT. It was smoother but shifted rather odd compared to the Focus. The Veloster is no where close to the Focus in like every area.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:43 AM   #115
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Thanks for the explanation I guess you can chalk me up to being a wet clutch fan then! Do you think maintenance was the reason Ford chose a dry clutch? The VW has to be changed every 30,000 to be honest though I don't see that as being excessive and would help the clutch last longer.

I was in no way saying the Hyundai DCT was all around better than the Ford DCT. It was smoother but shifted rather odd compared to the Focus. The Veloster is no where close to the Focus in like every area.
i have to agree w/ the original poster....the wet clutch auto in the VW is great.. I rented a golf twin turbo w/ wet clutch auto when in iceland and drove all over the island for 3 weeks in rain, dry, flat, mountains, mud/dirt roads (some of which , when wet, were more akin to driving on grease) and snow.... The car/DCT was a dream..
Although im lucky iv'e not had any problems w/ the DCT in my focus as it performs smoothly and quietly, the VW's is far superior, imo, in all respects as it pertains to driving....i know the maintenance on them is more than w/ the dry clutch and gas mileage is a bit less but if i were to buy again soon, i'd not hesitate w/ a wet clutch.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:05 PM   #116
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i have to agree w/ the original poster....the wet clutch auto in the VW is great.. I rented a golf twin turbo w/ wet clutch auto when in iceland and drove all over the island for 3 weeks in rain, dry, flat, mountains, mud/dirt roads (some of which , when wet, were more akin to driving on grease) and snow.... The car/DCT was a dream..
Although im lucky iv'e not had any problems w/ the DCT in my focus as it performs smoothly and quietly, the VW's is far superior, imo, in all respects as it pertains to driving....i know the maintenance on them is more than w/ the dry clutch and gas mileage is a bit less but if i were to buy again soon, i'd not hesitate w/ a wet clutch.
Nice to have someone agree with me! It was smooth as butter except for the stutter when you first started, that was barely noticeable though. Thing shifts quick as can be, really makes the GTI feel like it has more than the 200HP! As a side not I find it nice that they offer an automatic and not just a manual like the competition. Thats probably why I see so many of them in traffic

I just want my Focus to work right ...
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Old 02-10-2013, 01:00 PM   #117
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Do you think maintenance was the reason Ford chose a dry clutch?
Reasons why some auto manufacturers have chosen to go with the dry clutch DCT's - lighter, more compact and less expensive. VW also uses a dry clutch in its low powered/torque gas engine vehicles in Europe.

Ford Europe offers wet clutch DCT in its higher powered/torque engines as well.

BTW, VW has had alot of problems with both their wet and dry clutch DCT's.
VW is facing a real storm in China right now from owners with DCT equipped vehicles.
I would have thought with VW would have had their DCT working much better by now, since they have been offering the DCT since 2003.

This is the most common problem for many VW DCT owners, globally
YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oKRLNjsoXg
DCT's have their benefits, but they have proven to be quirky to say the least.
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Old 02-10-2013, 01:23 PM   #118
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Reasons why some auto manufacturers have chosen to go with the dry clutch DCT's - lighter, more compact and less expensive. VW also uses a dry clutch in its low powered/torque gas engine vehicles in Europe.

Ford Europe offers wet clutch DCT in its higher powered/torque engines as well.

BTW, VW has had alot of problems with both their wet and dry clutch DCT's.
VW is facing a real storm in China right now from owners with DCT equipped vehicles.
I would have thought with VW would have had their DCT working much better by now, since they have been offering the DCT since 2003.

This is the most common problem for many VW DCT owners, globally
YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oKRLNjsoXg
DCT's have their benefits, but they have proven to be quirky to say the least.
As evidenced by both the vid and by ur posting, VW obviously has its own issues.... I guess the moral of the Dry clutch vs. Wet clutch story is this: Some are good and some are crap... I'm lucky in that the VW i rented worked flawlessly and doubly lucky i don't have any problems w/ my focus DCT... Shifts smoothly, no shudder or chatter or odd noises.... It's too bad that manufacturers can't get their collective act together and take what has the potential to be a great tranny and design it properly so that ALL customers are happy.
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Old 02-10-2013, 01:25 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by GhiaFan View Post
Reasons why some auto manufacturers have chosen to go with the dry clutch DCT's - lighter, more compact and less expensive. VW also uses a dry clutch in its low powered/torque gas engine vehicles in Europe.

Ford Europe offers wet clutch DCT in its higher powered/torque engines as well.

BTW, VW has had alot of problems with both their wet and dry clutch DCT's.
VW is facing a real storm in China right now from owners with DCT equipped vehicles.
I would have thought with VW would have had their DCT working much better by now, since they have been offering the DCT since 2003.

This is the most common problem for many VW DCT owners, globally
YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oKRLNjsoXg
DCT's have their benefits, but they have proven to be quirky to say the least.
A quick google shows that the Polo in the video is equipped with the NEW VW dry clutch 7 speed which seems to be the transmission having the most problems. It seems to be mostly limited to the cars with the 1.2L and 1.4L engines as well

The 6-Speed BorgWarner unit that is still used in most of the US VW cars and still a lot of vehicles in other countries seems to be pretty solid from what the internets says some early ones did have some issues that were resolved rather quickly though.

Not a VW expert though but yes I agree the DCT has quirks I guess some more so than others
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Old 02-10-2013, 01:33 PM   #120
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As evidenced by both the vid and by ur posting, VW obviously has its own issues.... I guess the moral of the Dry clutch vs. Wet clutch story is this: Some are good and some are crap... I'm lucky in that the VW i rented worked flawlessly and doubly lucky i don't have any problems w/ my focus DCT... Shifts smoothly, no shudder or chatter or odd noises.... It's too bad that manufacturers can't get their collective act together and take what has the potential to be a great tranny and design it properly so that ALL customers are happy.
I wish! haha the probably of that happening though are pretty much NONE.

At least when eletrics become mainstream we wont have to worry about transmissions I guess
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