Another One Bites The Dust

[pozi240]

Originally Posted by hotleadsingerguy

pozi240: His passive "old saying" quote subtly made the point that Ford goes after us because we're fools and they know they can make money easily.

LOL... I got it, and you needn't point it out, but thanks. How's the Honda working? Excellent I imagine. I sometimes miss my old 04 Accord coupe.

[Just Tom]

Originally Posted by Strix

For the first year I had no problems at all.

SO, do you still think I should be pursuing a lemon law claim? On a car that's almost two years old and now has 45,000 miles on it? I can get a lemon law claim on this? And again, I had little trouble with the car for the first 15 months of ownership. Most of my troubles started with the dealership service department, not the factory.

Something that baffles me is people who post on forums like they know what the best course of action is for people, when they know little to nothing about that person's situation.

Since I can't file a lemon law claim, are you going to stop suggesting I'm an idiot for not doing so?

Generally speaking, the defect must have occurred during the manufactures warranty period in order to meet the eligibility for a lemon claim. The fact that your car is two years old and has 45,000 miles on it doesn't exempt you necessarily, depending on when within the warranty period the defect became known and if you made a reasonable number of attempts to have it repaired while still under warranty. Ford's warranty is 3 yrs/36k bumper to bumper and 5 yrs/60k on powertrain. Assuming your issue is powertrain related, it's not unreasonable to think that you might be able to file a lemon law claim. Obviously you know what the issues are and how many attempts have been made to correct the problem. I'm not an attorney, so I cannot give you legal advice, but if you think that you might have a case, then this is something that you might look in to.

As far as calling you an idiot is concerned, I never used that word; you did.

Originally Posted by hotleadsingerguy

The problem with that is that many of us that are having problems have had our cars far more than a year. I had mine for 18 months (bought and received in the beginning of April, 2011), so the lemon law does not apply. The car wasn't in the shop the specified number of times or amount of days within the first year.Do you really think we're all that stupid to miss something like getting all of our money back? The original members of this section of the forum have been here for 18-20+ months.

I agree that Ford won't do anything as long as we don't bring it to their attention, but most of us have been bringing it to their attention since the beginning. Ford just ignores everything we do. Many of us have filled out BBB complaints, federal complaints, complaints with Ford, complaints to dealerships, etc... and Ford just ignores it all.

Hmm...seems like I hit a nerve. First thing I'd like to say is whether it's on this forum or some other one, people will say things you don't always like or agree with. That's life, deal with it. I've conducted myself respectfully towards the other members while telling things from my prespective. If you don't like it, you can choose to ignore it. We have moderators here, let them do their jobs. If they don't like anything I've said, they can call me out or lock down the thread; but I suspect neither will happen because I've been respectful. You on the other hand seem to be over reacting and blowing things completely out of proportion.

Obviously, if you've already tried for a lemon claim and have been unsucessful, then what I've said doesn't even apply to you. So why anything I've said would even bother you makes no sense to me, but feel free to be hysterical and spend your own money as you wish.

Laws vary from state to state, so it's possible that your car doesn't qualify under the lemon law after only 18 months. In my case it was two years before I filed my claim and we already know how that turned out for me.

As far as calling you stupid, I never said that either, but if you think that applies to you...I won't argue. As far as your comment about "miss[ing] something like getting all our money back" is concerned, I honestly have to say that, yes, I do believe some members have done exactly that. However, unlike yourself, I never suggested that they were stupid. I merely pointed out that a legal remedy exists that some members may have never considered or thought it was out of their reach. I've had a handful of members reply to me privately or on other threads who were under a false impression about who pays the legal fees when a lemon case it settled. As I've already pointed out, the manufacture is required to pay those fees, not the consumer. It's also true that some people gave up too soon, traded-in their cars, took the financial hit and never even considered the lemon law approach. So while that may not describe you, that doesn't mean it doesn't apply to others. You hardly speak for the entire forum here, regardless of how long you've "been a member."....as if that meant anything at all.

Originally Posted by hotleadsingerguy

We're all glad it worked out for you, but I think you should refrain from using any more "old sayings". You know nothing about any of the situations people on this forum are in, regardless of what they post here. Acting like you do makes *you* look foolish, not the other way around. Please don't disrespect other users because you think they should have done something differently.

For some of us, paying any amount of money to get rid of a problem is better than keeping the problem around and hoping it works out. Maybe we're better-off, financially, or maybe we're just more fickle with our expenditures, but it's not your position to judge. If I have to throw away $5k just to no longer deal with a problem I've been dealing with for a year and half...I'm fine with it. I've dealt with Ford since the beginning, and outside of Lemon Law the only possibility is their arbitration, since in some states it's not illegal to force customers to sign for arbitration clauses.

Point being: You know nothing about our situations. Don't patronize people on this forum by explaining what worked for you as if it were the perfect fit for everyone.

pozi240: His passive "old saying" quote subtly made the point that Ford goes after us because we're fools and they know they can make money easily.

In terms of looking foolish goes, I think that you've done a pretty good job of that yourself, but others are welcome to think what they like. I'm not really sure how you equate me "disrecting other users" by "thinking they should have done something differently" or that I'm "judging" anyone. Obviously you and I are worlds apart when it comes to logic, because I clearly don't understand your far reaching conclusions or over reactions to most of what I've said in this thread. Feel free to like/dislike my point of view, it's okay, I can handle it. I'm secure enough in my point of view that I don't need to seek your approval. Having said that, I'm sure other forum members would like to add their thoughts and opinions, so I'll end mine here.

[gkirk]

Originally Posted by roswelltop

I can totally empathize with the many contributors to this forum whose car purchase has turned into a nightmare. As to the financial loss, think of it like divorce--it's gonna cost you a bundle to leave, but your sanity is more important than the money.

Of all the cars I have owned the best have been my 1995 Subaru Imprezza (a small tank), the 2004 and 2007 BMW's* and the 2011 & 2013 Focus' (except for Sync hiccups).

*BMW had high pressure fuel pump issues on the 2007 335i's. They immediately replaced the pumps and extended the warranty to 100,000 miles.

In addition, both of my Ford dealers have been great. I've had a couple of Sync issuers in the 2013 mostly involving it's ability to process voice commands with Mobil Apps, so the dealer is replacing the Sync module.

I'm not trying to be contrarian, but would you have felt differently if BMW had spent months telling you the pump was "normal" and then replaced it and not extended the warranty?

My complaining here and at my dealership got me a free powertrain warranty extension to like 70k miles. It helped to put my mind at ease a bit with the whole grinding thing.

The fact is, Ford has done the math and its just not worth it for them to fix all the sub normal DCTs out there or maybe they have no way of identifying them. Most of them are probably mildly broken and will last most of their target life. The really broken ones are probably obvious and being fixed. Most of us probably have DCTs closer to the 'normal' side.

Either way, they should do the right thing and just say 'this is warranteed for 100k miles.' After all, why shouldn't a transmission last 100k miles?

[hotleadsingerguy]

Originally Posted by pozi240

LOL... I got it, and you needn't point it out, but thanks. How's the Honda working? Excellent I imagine. I sometimes miss my old 04 Accord coupe.

Better than I'd hoped. This thing is a beast, and works perfectly. I've had 0 issues with the car, other than one of the springs in the driver seat making some noise when I first sit down and attempt to move my coat (it's the way I move that makes the noise). I'll hit the dealership sometime to get that fixed, but nothing else is wrong so I don't want to hurry to the dealership haha

Originally Posted by Just Tom

Hmm...seems like I hit a nerve. First thing I'd like to say is whether it's on this forum or some other one, people will say things you don't always like or agree with. That's life, deal with it. I've conducted myself respectfully towards the other members while telling things from my prespective. If you don't like it, you can choose to ignore it. We have moderators here, let them do their jobs. If they don't like anything I've said, they can call me out or lock down the thread; but I suspect neither will happen because I've been respectful. You on the other hand seem to be over reacting and blowing things completely out of proportion.

Obviously, if you've already tried for a lemon claim and have been unsucessful, then what I've said doesn't even apply to you. So why anything I've said would even bother you makes no sense to me, but feel free to be hysterical and spend your own money as you wish.

Laws vary from state to state, so it's possible that your car doesn't qualify under the lemon law after only 18 months. In my case it was two years before I filed my claim and we already know how that turned out for me.

As far as calling you stupid, I never said that either, but if you think that applies to you...I won't argue. As far as your comment about "miss[ing] something like getting all our money back" is concerned, I honestly have to say that, yes, I do believe some members have done exactly that. However, unlike yourself, I never suggested that they were stupid. I merely pointed out that a legal remedy exists that some members may have never considered or thought it was out of their reach. I've had a handful of members reply to me privately or on other threads who were under a false impression about who pays the legal fees when a lemon case it settled. As I've already pointed out, the manufacture is required to pay those fees, not the consumer. It's also true that some people gave up too soon, traded-in their cars, took the financial hit and never even considered the lemon law approach. So while that may not describe you, that doesn't mean it doesn't apply to others. You hardly speak for the entire forum here, regardless of how long you've "been a member."....as if that meant anything at all.

In terms of looking foolish goes, I think that you've done a pretty good job of that yourself, but others are welcome to think what they like. I'm not really sure how you equate me "disrecting other users" by "thinking they should have done something differently" or that I'm "judging" anyone. Obviously you and I are worlds apart when it comes to logic, because I clearly don't understand your far reaching conclusions or over reactions to most of what I've said in this thread. Feel free to like/dislike my point of view, it's okay, I can handle it. I'm secure enough in my point of view that I don't need to seek your approval. Having said that, I'm sure other forum members would like to add their thoughts and opinions, so I'll end mine here.

Let's put it this way: If the entirety of the replies to your posts have said that you're wrong, unfair, or judging...don't you think you should re-evaluate your posts and how people view them?

You didn't "hit a nerve" at all...you're saying you're baffled and can't understand how people would rather take a hit than do what you did. The problem with that line of thinking is exactly what you explained: You don't understand. You said that it seems to you that people are uninformed of their rights and uninformed, but the truth is most of the people in this thread are quite informed and know their rights quite well. People make their own decisions, and I'm not sure why it's your position and right to criticize them. You have been mostly respectful, but your line about "a fool and his money are soon parted" was not respectful at all and underlines your thoughts about the people in this thread (and outside of it) that have traded away. While that expense may not be worth it *TO YOU*, it may very well be for the rest of us. You're welcome to have an opinion on the subject, but whether you want to believe it or not your opinion comes across as very condescending. There's a reason why people have replied to your posts more in anger than in kindness.

A vast majority of the states in the the country only accept lemon law filings if the "issue(s)" occurred within the first 12 months (or 20k-30k miles, depending on state). With a few exceptions, pretty much everyone on this forum that has traded their car has had it for 12-18 months. Many of us didn't start having troubles for the first few months, so by the time the 12 month target rolled around we had only had it in the shop about half of the time/visits required by the lemon laws in our states.

I'm not speaking for the forum. I'm speaking for the people that have made threads about trading in their Focus; not coincidentally, the topic at hand. Of all of those types of topics I've seen, very few would have qualified for the lemon law.

Again, regardless of how you think you come across...you've come across as condescending in a few of these posts. Ending a post with "a fool and his money are soon parted", when discussing this topic, comes across as very disrespectful. You actually wonder why people think you're calling them stupid? Don't try to sugarcoat that line or make it seem like just literary nonsense.

Point being: I'm completely confident in the actions I've made. I'm completely happy with how it all went down because I'm fine spending money to make the problem go away. I never again have to deal with Ford and now have a wonderful car.

[kam327]

Originally Posted by hotleadsingerguy

Better than I'd hoped. This thing is a beast, and works perfectly. I've had 0 issues with the car, other than one of the springs in the driver seat making some noise when I first sit down and attempt to move my coat (it's the way I move that makes the noise). I'll hit the dealership sometime to get that fixed, but nothing else is wrong so I don't want to hurry to the dealership haha

To be fair to our problem child, many folks on here have said that of the Focus (having 0 issues).

And I've read quite a few complaints of low speed "jerkiness" with the Accord's new CVT. Sound familiar???

[Just Tom]

Originally Posted by hotleadsingerguy

Let's put it this way: If the entirety of the replies to your posts have said that you're wrong, unfair, or judging...don't you think you should re-evaluate your posts and how people view them?

You didn't "hit a nerve" at all...you're saying you're baffled and can't understand how people would rather take a hit than do what you did. The problem with that line of thinking is exactly what you explained: You don't understand. You said that it seems to you that people are uninformed of their rights and uninformed, but the truth is most of the people in this thread are quite informed and know their rights quite well. People make their own decisions, and I'm not sure why it's your position and right to criticize them. You have been mostly respectful, but your line about "a fool and his money are soon parted" was not respectful at all and underlines your thoughts about the people in this thread (and outside of it) that have traded away. While that expense may not be worth it *TO YOU*, it may very well be for the rest of us. You're welcome to have an opinion on the subject, but whether you want to believe it or not your opinion comes across as very condescending. There's a reason why people have replied to your posts more in anger than in kindness.

A vast majority of the states in the the country only accept lemon law filings if the "issue(s)" occurred within the first 12 months (or 20k-30k miles, depending on state). With a few exceptions, pretty much everyone on this forum that has traded their car has had it for 12-18 months. Many of us didn't start having troubles for the first few months, so by the time the 12 month target rolled around we had only had it in the shop about half of the time/visits required by the lemon laws in our states.

I'm not speaking for the forum. I'm speaking for the people that have made threads about trading in their Focus; not coincidentally, the topic at hand. Of all of those types of topics I've seen, very few would have qualified for the lemon law.

Again, regardless of how you think you come across...you've come across as condescending in a few of these posts. Ending a post with "a fool and his money are soon parted", when discussing this topic, comes across as very disrespectful. You actually wonder why people think you're calling them stupid? Don't try to sugarcoat that line or make it seem like just literary nonsense.

Point being: I'm completely confident in the actions I've made. I'm completely happy with how it all went down because I'm fine spending money to make the problem go away. I never again have to deal with Ford and now have a wonderful car.

This is obviously something that we don't agree on, so I'll keep my comments brief since this is going nowhere. I've read the replies. Very clearly, the "entirety of the replies" did not say that I was "wrong, unfair or judging." It's obvious that you think that way, but it would appear that you are in the minority. As I stated earlier, if your car, or anyone's car for that matter isn't eligible for a lemon law claim, then none of what I've said even pertains to you. That should be fairly obvious. This whole thing is ironic, especially since you no longer even own a Focus. Yet, you choose to personalize what was said and applied it to yourself as if I was directing my comments to you; which obviously it wasn't. Yet, you still want to debate the issue. You come off with such righteous indignation as if I had insulted your mother. If you found the old adage to be so highly offensive, you probably shouldn't spend any more time on forums like these. Who knows what unsavory comments could be made that you might find to be so distasteful? Oh the horror! Please spare us all your feigned moral outrage; I'm fairly certain you've been called far worse things than "a fool".

[hotleadsingerguy]

Originally Posted by kam327

To be fair to our problem child, many folks on here have said that of the Focus (having 0 issues).

And I've read quite a few complaints of low speed "jerkiness" with the Accord's new CVT. Sound familiar???

Went with the 6MT. The Focus was an experiment with automatic transmissions and one that I don't see myself attempting again in the future. I'll stick with a transmission I know works well, since I'm the one controlling it.



Just Tom: I'm done, as well. Mentioning others having righteous indignation and then saying you're sure I've been called more than just a fool really cements what I've said about your comments. I stick around on the forum to help people with issues that I can help with (I know a great deal about cars and about electrical systems). I've been asked to stick around to help members out, so I will. That doesn't mean I won't also join into other conversations that I find interest in.

[dan50]

Originally Posted by kam327

To be fair to our problem child, many folks on here have said that of the Focus (having 0 issues).

And I've read quite a few complaints of low speed "jerkiness" with the Accord's new CVT. Sound familiar???

Beginning in 1974 we were treated to years and years of lousy automobiles as manufacturers struggled to meet new emissions requirements. Poor fuel economy, performance, driveability and the like were everywhere. A number of technologies were tried ("lean-burn", "CVCC", throttle body injection, et al) and later abandoned to be replaced with something better.

We may be at another such point now as manufacturers try to meet the new and much more demanding fuel economy standards. Lots of new technology is again being deployed to meet the goal ( DCT, CVT, 8 speed transmissions, direct injection, turbocharging, electric power steering, active grille shutters, etc.). Ultimately, some will succeed and others will be abandoned. Even those that succeed with go through many iterations.

So I think we're in for an interesting and frustrating period, not just for Ford but for everyone. The ability to buy a car and having it perform just as we like with no idiosyncrasies and great durability is probably going to take a holiday for the next decade or so.

[Just Tom]

Originally Posted by dan50

Beginning in 1974 we were treated to years and years of lousy automobiles as manufacturers struggled to meet new emissions requirements. Poor fuel economy, performance, driveability and the like were everywhere. A number of technologies were tried ("lean-burn", "CVCC", throttle body injection, et al) and later abandoned to be replaced with something better.

We may be at another such point now as manufacturers try to meet the new and much more demanding fuel economy standards. Lots of new technology is again being deployed to meet the goal ( DCT, CVT, 8 speed transmissions, direct injection, turbocharging, electric power steering, active grille shutters, etc.). Ultimately, some will succeed and others will be abandoned. Even those that succeed with go through many iterations.

So I think we're in for an interesting and frustrating period, not just for Ford but for everyone. The ability to buy a car and having it perform just as we like with no idiosyncrasies and great durability is probably going to take a holiday for the next decade or so.

One word: Smartphone. Remember when phones were, um....phones? Now they are mini-computers which happen to have a "phone" app.

[kb911]

its weird hearing all these stories of horrible customer service and horrible quality. my focus has a few faults but that is expected in a BRAND NEW MODEL with A FIRST YEAR PRODUCTION ON NEW TOOLING. I have taken mine back for a rattling headliner and a rattling passenger seat along with a wind noise issue with the microphone. Every time I have been treated extremely well with an explanation of the steps involved and the shop foreman speaking to me when the situation could not be duplicated the first time. Hell half the time the foreman would come up with a decision on his own as to why the part failed and would fix it with better results than the standard Ford Recommendation. Compared to what I went through with Chrysler I would buy another Ford in a heartbeat! A majority of complaints I see is with the DCT Transmission and honestly I am shocked at how many people buy a car and are oblivious to what they are buying it is an automated manual transmission with a dry clutch...there's a simple solution just buy a regular manual transmission car and reap the benefits or more durable usage, better gas mileage, longer service life, and the knowledge that regardless of fail it still can be used to drive to a garage or safe spot in order to be fixed. To those who say they do not want a manual transmission or have a leg problem that prevents them from doing so may I suggest the 2013 Ford Fusion?