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Old 12-13-2012, 07:34 AM   #41
e30og
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PratoN View Post
Rude. I bought my car in July of 2011, so there was no (reliability) homework to do. I suppose for me you should be saying "shame on you for buying a first year / new model car". On those grounds, I might agree.

Plus, as other users have said - some of us bought the vehicle that a lady has to use occasionally. In hindsight, teaching her stick would probably be the easier route.
By July of 2011, there were several complaints of the DCT in the Fiesta since it had been out a year. I personally remember back in early 2011 reading tons of issues with the DCT in the Fiesta in online consumer reviews. Its the same unit in the Focus so assuming it wouldnt be problematic is shortsighted. Im truly sorry for whatever issues you have, however a little research would have gone a long way.

As for an example review of the DCT in '12 Focus, I believe that is February 2011:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...el-test-review

- On the DCT "...but the technology might have been yanked out of the oven a few minutes early."
- "There were other problems, too. With 3000 miles on our test car, the clutches were already a little glazed and chattery, with vibrations working up the steering column when we rolled off under light throttle. "
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:39 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by halfmoonclip View Post
Jackson, hate to spring this on you, but a lot of people look only at CR when car shopping. I only use it as one source; in this case, a source that agrees with a number of other sources, including this forum.
Moon
And those people usually buy Toyota or Honda anyway.

As far as people who are now concerned with resale value, the focus has historically not been a good resale value car. People should have taken that into account when they signed the paperwork.

Long story short, enjoy what you have, or trade it in on something else. No sense in looking for answers about resale after its too late!

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:56 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by e30og View Post
As for an example review of the DCT in '12 Focus, I believe that is February 2011:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...el-test-review

- On the DCT "...but the technology might have been yanked out of the oven a few minutes early."
- "There were other problems, too. With 3000 miles on our test car, the clutches were already a little glazed and chattery, with vibrations working up the steering column when we rolled off under light throttle. "
Statements like the above -- the words "yanked out of the oven a few minutes early" -- just don't convey the right sense of impending doom. Consumer Reports tends to be more blunt in their assessments.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:45 AM   #44
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I can't judge what CR has to say about the Focus because I have not read it, but be aware that CR is more of a detriment than an asset to those who want a true feel for the product they are considering. That point was brought home to me a number of years ago when they basically did a hatchet job on the profession that I've devoted my life to (I'm a veterinarian).

I don't mind that they are critical of some of the things they review - nothing in life is above criticism, whether it be my profession, automobiles, or toasters. But the criticism should be fair and based on fact. CR's "reports" are researched and written by nonprofessionals going by the opinions of other nonprofessionals. Not that that in itself is so bad, but there should also be some real research involved and they should incorporate more unbiased professional input. That's what journalism is all about. In the case of the Focus, I understand that they did not even evaluate the basic car - they evaluated the car with optional equipment (MFT and DCT). I know that these options are in most Foci sold and so there is legitimate reason for taking that into account, but comparing DCT cars and standard automatic transmission cars is comparing apples and oranges. At least some (NOT all) of the consumer complaints about the DCT have come from car buyers who did not understand what they were buying - and Ford can be legitimately criticized in that regard as well. CR also does not take into consideration any improvements which may or may not have been accomplished since the early production run.

There is no scientific method to their "science". Nor do they intend there to be. They are only interested in generating lists, because that is what consumers want. But understand that their lists are steaming piles of subjective crap.

There are legitimate criticisms of the Focus, particularly in regards to the MFT and DCT technologies, and legitimate criticisms of how Ford has handled the introduction of the technologies into their vehicles. Do a little digging and understand all of the pros and cons, and then make up your mind. But don't waste your time on reading a CR "report". It will just be 30 minutes of your life that you'll never get back.

Last edited by drdab99; 12-13-2012 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:50 AM   #45
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Do you have both?
When I used MFT on a dealership vehicle back when I was in the buying process, it was junk. Slow, buggy and overly complicated. I'm not buying a vehicle on the 'promise' its software will be upgraded, I believe what I see. Ford should have already had the bugs worked out the day the first vehicle rolled off the line, I am not a beta tester. I understand if there is a one-off problem with a new vehicle, only occurring in rare circumstances, that doesn't bother me. But anybody who is reasonably competent who spent 15 minutes with MFT could identify a myriad of issues. How that got the green-light to go in to production is amazing and doesn't speak well about Ford's software development processes.

As for Sync, my complaints with it are similar to the base radio. Deep, complicated menus that are unintuitive. Poor voice recognition. If I'm listening to the radio, why do I first need to say 'phone' then 'call xyz', why can't I just say 'call xyz'? Why does the 'AUX' button default to line in every time? When I leave my vehicle and return to it, why does it not remember I was listening to Bluetooth last time and default to that? Why are menu options slow to load? Why is the screen space used so poorly? (I suspect intentionally gimped so as not to compete with MFT) An example of poor screen use real estate, displaying "SO:" and "AR:" instead of "Song:" and "Artist:" There is plenty of space on the tiny screen to do that, so why some poor abbreviation? Get rid of that damn Sync logo.

The DCT never was an issue on any of the vehicles I drove and so far I haven't heard a peep from mine.

While I do have other small issues with the vehicle, none are as glaring as the infotainment problems. Overall I like my Focus a lot and would recommend it to most people. Any car maker can make a half decent brand new car. What really shows quality and value is how the car holds up after its out of warranty, at 150k or 200k miles. How I feel 8-10 years down the line about my Focus will determine if Ford gets my money again.
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:38 AM   #46
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Couple quick reactions to previous posters...
-Resale, Honda, Ford...I have had great luck with Honda products, actually thought seriously about a Civic, but it handled like a baby Buick, wallowy and sloppy. (Apparently Honda has belatedly recognized the problem and is recalibrating suspensions for this year.) I liked how the Ford drove, and supporting a domestic manufacturer for the first time in a long time seemed like the right thing to do, especially with a stepdad who had a career in Detroit and the lousy domestic economy. Too, the Focus got great reviews for its ride/handling balance, something that is absolutely true.
-Early reviews of the DCT...did indicate some roughness; however, the severity of the problem was not made clear; perhaps the tester's cars did not misbehave in this regard. The shuddering thing was not present in my car when it was new; first time it was noticed was in March. The automated manual in VW products has a great reputation, and the idea of the performance and efficiency of a manual in a vehicle my women could drive sounded (conceptually) like a great idea. It is a great idea.
There appear to be two distinct problems with the tranny; some mechanical (clutches)and some electronic. Ford seems to be hoping that software updates will solve most of the problems.
-Sync issues...the Bluetooth aspect has always worked well for me, but the clockspring problems were responsible for the issues with the steering column controls. Since the clockspring was replaced, the system has gone back to what it was doing when the car was turned off, and thus far it hasn't done the 'directory full' thing that requires pulling a fuse to reboot the system.
223, you may have the clockspring problem; do your steering wheel controls sometimes do strange things?
Moon
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:47 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halfmoonclip View Post
223, you may have the clockspring problem; do your steering wheel controls sometimes do strange things?
Never experienced negative issues. I do not believe anything is malfunctioning, rather just poor quality, strictly concerning the operating software of the radio and Sync.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:31 AM   #48
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Never experienced negative issues. I do not believe anything is malfunctioning, rather just poor quality, strictly concerning the operating software of the radio and Sync.
I would at least discuss it with your dealer. I understand things mechanical, that act in a predictable way for an understandable reason.
The electronic stuff is just a mystery as regards doing one thing one time and something else the next; an issue it shares with my computer.
In any case, there may have been an update that they installed at the same time they replaced the clockspring, so you may want to inquire.
Moon
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:08 AM   #49
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I used to work as a tour rep taking a group of students and regular customers to places like Cancun, Cuba and Dominican Republic. The groups ranged from 100 to 500 in size, and my job was to make sure they boarded the plane, checked in to the hotel and fix any issues that they presented. 99% of the people had a blast and thanked me for making their trip the best they ever had, however, there was always about 10 people on average that had a miserable time. They complained about the room, they complained about the food, they complained that there was not enough entertainment, they even complained about me not being able to covert their Canadian money to U.S. currency. The point of this story is, while most of us are super happy with our cars (myself included), there is always going to be others who are disappointed. Do a search and type Civic Sucks, Camry Sucks, etc and you will find a bunch of people not happy with their choice.

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Old 12-13-2012, 11:11 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by drdab99 View Post
I can't judge what CR has to say about the Focus because I have not read it, but be aware that CR is more of a detriment than an asset to those who want a true feel for the product they are considering. That point was brought home to me a number of years ago when they basically did a hatchet job on the profession that I've devoted my life to (I'm a veterinarian).

I don't mind that they are critical of some of the things they review - nothing in life is above criticism, whether it be my profession, automobiles, or toasters. But the criticism should be fair and based on fact. CR's "reports" are researched and written by nonprofessionals going by the opinions of other nonprofessionals. Not that that in itself is so bad, but there should also be some real research involved and they should incorporate more unbiased professional input. That's what journalism is all about. In the case of the Focus, I understand that they did not even evaluate the basic car - they evaluated the car with optional equipment (MFT and DCT). I know that these options are in most Foci sold and so there is legitimate reason for taking that into account, but comparing DCT cars and standard automatic transition cars is comparing apples and oranges. At least some (NOT all) of the consumer complaints about the DCT have come from car buyers who did not understand what they were buying - and Ford can be legitimately criticized in that regard as well. CR also does not take into consideration any improvements which may or may not have been accomplished since the early production run.

There is no scientific method to their "science". Nor do they intend there to be. They are only interested in generating lists, because that is what consumers want. But understand that their lists are steaming piles of subjective crap.There are legitimate criticisms of the Focus, particularly in regards to the MFT and DCT technologies, and legitimate criticisms of how Ford has handled the introduction of the technologies into their vehicles. Do a little digging and understand all of the pros and cons, and then make up your mind. But don't waste your time on reading a CR "report". It will just be 30 minutes of your life that you'll never get back.

Great post, probably the best post in this thread! While there have been some great discussions both in this thread and many others on the subject of MFT and DCT, most of it has been blown out of proportion (with some exceptions of course, and some members here having to "fight" with bad dealerships, which futher exacerbates the problems). But, your view of CR and its overly subjective reviews is spot on. I've noticed that for years..... I guess a LOT of people here forget the meaning of the title, "Consumer Reports"... its simply that, nothing more. Just a clearing house of lists compiled by regular folk, many of whom don't even own the product, but, took the time to fill out a vague questionaire on it because they were bored. When you take CR to task on why thier ratings can change drastically from one review period to the next, they will simply state "we are NOT resonsible for the quality or accuracy of the actual reviews, will simply compile the data and put it out in an easy to read and interpret format" .... I guess you should certainly take that with a heavy "grain of salt" then... LOL.
I, myself would much rather talk to actual owners who have driven the car for a while and take the "objective" approach to making a fair assesment. Was the DCT perfect and without issue, no, in a lot of cases, certainly not. Has software updates and shaft seal replacement fixed these issues, in most cases, yes. Certainly in mine anyway. Is MFT really as bad as some would have you believe? NO, and the latest 3.5.1 has been a major improvement, and even prior to that update, I still enjoyed MFT and preferred it over any other infotainment system in prior cars before it... it still "wows" new passengers in my car everytime. Has it affected resale value to the detriment? Some will say yes, I haven't found that, at least in my area. A quick cursory search of dealerships and online ads certainly support a very strong resale of MKIII Focus, at least on par with other brands in its segment.

Thanks for that post DrDab!
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