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Old 11-21-2012, 03:23 PM   #21
Ysteven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PratoN View Post
I probably could - I have access to all sorts of vehicle repair tools... I'm just afraid I'll screw something up and have to pay for it out of pocket. Or that might deny a claim because I opened it up or something. (Not that it really matters, I've already been denied multiple times. lol)

EDIT: If I decide to go through with opening it up myself and checking it out (through the starter or actuators) I'll let all of you know! My buddy lent his borescope to someone else for the weekend, so it'll have to wait until another weekend or, more likely, mid-December when I take the rest of my vacation for the year.
There is also vent tube(U shap) if you pull base out there is another 3/8-1/2 inch opening. I don't know if that helps. I think that's how they put oil in, I pull mine out today out of curiosity. Snap in type.
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Old 12-20-2012, 03:49 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by 2012SEL2gen View Post
... that oil leak for me was the rear main seal.
Motor oil getting into either or both of the DCT's clutches could easily explain some of the troubles owners have experienced.

Until Ford can identify clearly what has been causing all of the problems owners have had with the DCT AND what they have done to resolve them, I won't take the risk of buying one. Especially when so many dealers refuse to admit that the problems even exist. ("We don't hear no grinding noises...")

Does anyone know whether this could be just as likely to cause problems with the clutch in a car with the 5-speed manual? I haven't read of anyone with the manual having clutch problems, but it's hard to imagine that the DCTs and manuals would not use the same rear main seal on the engine. Maybe some difference inside the transmissions would make the DCT's clutch(es) more vulnerable to such an oil leak than in the manual?

I have been impatiently waiting out the 2012 model year to avoid problems like this, hoping Ford would get the problems with the DCT worked out for the 2013 model, but apparently they have not. I began to think that buying a manual trans instead would avoid any risk of the grief so many DCT owners have experienced, but now I'm not so sure of that plan, either.

IF there is a chance that this crankshaft seal is a significant part of the DCT mess AND it could also affect the 5-speed manual, THEN I don't even want to risk buying a 2013 Focus with the manual trans until I see proof it is resolved.


I wonder if Ford could share any numbers on:

* Whether a significant percentage of DCT clutch replacements were caused by a problem with this particular seal,

* Whether its design has been changed to make it more reliable,

* When the change went into production.

(I'm sure they won't, though, for competitive reasons.)
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Old 12-20-2012, 04:12 AM   #23
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Oil on clutch AND bad programming

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Originally Posted by dan50 View Post
The problems described here seem to be mostly clutch-related, either from oil on the clutch plates or bad programming.
I would add that "bad programming" AND "oil on the clutch plates" can both be present simultaneously. Seems likely to me that a slipping clutch could cause software to go through a path that it normally would not and that is where the bug(s) is (are). This could explain how someone could be happy with their DCT for thousands of miles of driving, then have it all go bad when a seal starts leaking. (I sure hope the programmers responsible for this code at least drive cars with manual transmissions themselves ... )

Last edited by Arco-Zakus; 12-21-2012 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 12-20-2012, 05:01 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arco-Zakus View Post
Motor oil getting into either or both of the DCT's clutches could easily explain some of the troubles owners have experienced.
Based on everything that I've read, motor oil on the clutches resulting from a leaking rear main seal seems to be very rare.

I'm not sure why you are focusing on the rear main seal rather than the transmission case seals which are well known to be a major issue.
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Old 12-20-2012, 05:13 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Kabigon View Post
Based on everything that I've read, motor oil on the clutches resulting from a leaking rear main seal seems to be very rare.

I'm not sure why you are focusing on the rear main seal rather than the transmission case seals which are well known to be a major issue.
I post some pictures of my old clutch, take a look. Don't remember if it in this thread or other. I couldn't see any oil spots on it. I assume its something to do with heat, probably it leaks when HOT, when cold it's not, but damage is done. And by the time you will drive to trans shop oil is dissapeared. Is it possible??? That's just my theory. I believe it's also my case, case dealer told me that when they originally replaced it, they didn't see oil and they never bothered to change seal. By doing that they fried another perfectly good clutch. I can't believe 2cents piece of rubber costing millions in repair. They shoud of predict it, or at least over killed it somehow with some kind of reinforced spring. My believe its spring on the seal expanding from heat and loosing tension which cause rubber get loose on the shaft.
By the way does anyone know how much oil needs to get a damage??? I assume we talking about tea spoon amounts. Just curious to find out.
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:04 PM   #26
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Rear Main Seal vs Trans Case Seals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabigon View Post
... I'm not sure why you are focusing on the rear main seal rather than the transmission case seals which are well known to be a major issue.
As I said in my comment, I'm leaning strongly towards buying a manual rather than the DCT. As far as I know, leaking trans seals have not been a problem with the manual trans. (Different part? More careful assembly? I don't know.) If the rear main seal leaking could cause a problem with the manual then I would want to be sure it stays "very rare" before I buy one. The leaking trans seals appeared to be rare when they were first discovered, but as time went by that changed.

The big problem for me is that it is hard to tell how big or small a risk I'd be taking either way. The impression made by accounts of problems is very likely disproportionate to the percentage of cars affected, but I don't have access to the numbers to assess that, and Ford is not likely to make them public.
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:15 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arco-Zakus View Post
As I said in my comment, I'm leaning strongly towards buying a manual rather than the DCT. As far as I know, leaking trans seals have not been a problem with the manual trans. (Different part? More careful assembly? I don't know.) If the rear main seal leaking could cause a problem with the manual then I would want to be sure it stays "very rare" before I buy one. The leaking trans seals appeared to be rare when they were first discovered, but as time went by that changed.

The big problem for me is that it is hard to tell how big or small a risk I'd be taking either way. The impression made by accounts of problems is very likely disproportionate to the percentage of cars affected, but I don't have access to the numbers to assess that, and Ford is not likely to make them public.
You feel like gambling?
I love my focus, I just can't believe that whole Cars star review dropped because of such a small problem or miss with trans. I hope they come up with fix. Very nice car aerodynamics and interior is all good. On highway speed you driving like luxury cause its built tight. I don't hear a lot of problems with manuals, I think it's little different assembly, unless Iam wrong.
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:39 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Ysteven View Post
You feel like gambling? ...
No, I definitely do not feel like gambling -- not for this purchase.

40 years ago I bought whatever car I enjoyed driving and didn't worry about problems because I fixed them myself, big or small. I'm now past the point of being able to do that kind of work and don't want to spend any of the time I have left going through the kind of grief it seems that you (and many others with the DCT) have. You have my sympathy. Thanks for sharing your experience here and for being an "early adopter" to help Ford find these problems. I hope they get them fixed before I run out of patience and buy something else. I really like the new Focus more than any of its competitors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ysteven View Post
... I just can't believe that whole Cars star review dropped because of such a small problem or miss with trans.
I'm not sure it is "such a small problem" as far as the aggravation it causes owners who experience it goes. I'm sure you've seen the threads on this forum. Seems pretty major to me to have a car hesitate severely just as you start to pull through an opening in heavy, fast moving oncoming traffic while making a left turn. Or get stranded in freezing weather miles from nowhere. Or go round and round with a dealer service dept. that just can't seem to believe what you tell them about what the car is doing wrong. I've had all those things happen to me over the years, sometime more than once, though once would have been more than enough for each.

Whether it is a "small problem" as a percentage of all the new Focus's they've sold is hard to tell. There's been a lot of discussion about whether the information in Consumer Reports is or is not reliable, but their reliability ratings come straight from user surveys. Even this may be misleading because who knows how the responses are skewed? Someone who has had problems may be more willing to fill out the survey and return it than someone who has not. If I were to want to gamble, I'd at least want to know the odds, and with this problem I do not. I believe they're more in my favor with the manual trans than with the DCT, at least for now, but my wife drives my car now more than in the past and she hates driving a manual. If only Ford offered the Focus with a conventional (torque converter) automatic, like the Escape, Mazda3, etc.

On the brighter side, the DCT seems to do a good job of alerting an owner to a leaking rear main seal that otherwise might have gone undetected until it got bad enough to cause other damage. I doubt that could be turned into a selling point, though.
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:46 PM   #29
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Hey guys.. I hope this is the right topic. I was just changing my oil (first time doing it myself on this car) and I noticed a sort of leak where the transmission is. Do you guys think this is normal?





Could someone help provide some insight? Oil change went fine. You can see where it is, the oil filter is on the left (front of the engine/car).

I appreciate the help!

Dave
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:50 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arco-Zakus View Post
No, I definitely do not feel like gambling -- not for this purchase.

40 years ago I bought whatever car I enjoyed driving and didn't worry about problems because I fixed them myself, big or small. I'm now past the point of being able to do that kind of work and don't want to spend any of the time I have left going through the kind of grief it seems that you (and many others with the DCT) have. You have my sympathy. Thanks for sharing your experience here and for being an "early adopter" to help Ford find these problems. I hope they get them fixed before I run out of patience and buy something else. I really like the new Focus more than any of its competitors.



I'm not sure it is "such a small problem" as far as the aggravation it causes owners who experience it goes. I'm sure you've seen the threads on this forum. Seems pretty major to me to have a car hesitate severely just as you start to pull through an opening in heavy, fast moving oncoming traffic while making a left turn. Or get stranded in freezing weather miles from nowhere. Or go round and round with a dealer service dept. that just can't seem to believe what you tell them about what the car is doing wrong. I've had all those things happen to me over the years, sometime more than once, though once would have been more than enough for each.

Whether it is a "small problem" as a percentage of all the new Focus's they've sold is hard to tell. There's been a lot of discussion about whether the information in Consumer Reports is or is not reliable, but their reliability ratings come straight from user surveys. Even this may be misleading because who knows how the responses are skewed? Someone who has had problems may be more willing to fill out the survey and return it than someone who has not. If I were to want to gamble, I'd at least want to know the odds, and with this problem I do not. I believe they're more in my favor with the manual trans than with the DCT, at least for now, but my wife drives my car now more than in the past and she hates driving a manual. If only Ford offered the Focus with a conventional (torque converter) automatic, like the Escape, Mazda3, etc.

On the brighter side, the DCT seems to do a good job of alerting an owner to a leaking rear main seal that otherwise might have gone undetected until it got bad enough to cause other damage. I doubt that could be turned into a selling point, though.
I meant about small problem is little price of rubber causing major problems.
This copy/paste.;Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabigon
Based on everything that I've read, motor oil on the clutches resulting from a leaking rear main seal seems to be very rare.

I'm not sure why you are focusing on the rear main seal rather than the transmission case seals which are well known to be a major issue.
I post some pictures of my old clutch, take a look. Don't remember if it in this thread or other. I couldn't see any oil spots on it. I assume its something to do with heat, probably it leaks when HOT, when cold it's not, but damage is done. And by the time you will drive to trans shop oil is dissapeared. Is it possible??? That's just my theory. I believe it's also my case, case dealer told me that when they originally replaced it, they didn't see oil and they never bothered to change seal. By doing that they fried another perfectly good clutch. I can't believe 2cents piece of rubber costing millions in repair. They shoud of predict it, or at least over killed it somehow with some kind of reinforced spring. My believe its spring on the seal expanding from heat and loosing tension which cause rubber get loose on the shaft.
By the way does anyone know how much oil needs to get a damage??? I assume we talking about tea spoon amounts. Just curious to find out.

It's super RARE engine seal to leak, I think transmission seal 99% of the times.
Also I don't know if its true( I don't believe it) read in same site that you can learn trans yourself by driving on S mode.
If I were you, I would wait a bit with buying, till all the bugs are out. Again I don't want to Ford think something wrong, that's just my advice to you. On my side all thumbs up for design and interior of focus, I just hate that we dealing with this problem. And more hate that Ford don't want to admit that they screwed up. At least agree with problem and fix it, and don't feed me with Notmal operation symptoms.
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