Anyone tried E85 yet?

[1turbofocus]

Originally Posted by ..:: sleestak ::..

The argument about not knowing what comes out of the pump - ghey. You buy a $15 tester and thats that. Tune it on class 3, where you are running essentially e70 and leave a little on the table and so long as you know whats coming out of that pump you have no issues..

Because if you tune it for e70 you reduce the timing and you almost back to what 93 octane offers but with less safety , now you thinking , keep going you will get there , you basicly saying to detune the e85 for safety like your running e70 , might as well use 93

Tom

[..:: sleestak ::..]

Then how is it that I made significantly more power on e85? I think there is just a lot of misinformation out there on it. People get great results with it and if you have a tuner who knows it, they can get you safe results.

e85 is the reason I'm upgrading my clutch. 93oct @20psi no problem. e85 @16psi and the clutch starts giving up. This was on the same day, back to back tuning. My high boost tune is waiting. :)

We tuned my car with class3 in the tank vs doing it in the summer when class1 is available. We didnt try to guess at detuning. It runs safe and will do so as the classes change with warmer weather. I test at the pump and mostly run 93oct during the work week.

Octane ratings are often debated, so let me copy from a decent source- VP fuels sourced for info
91 r+m/2
93 r+m/2
e100 122 r+m/2
e85 117 r+m/2
e70 111 r+m/2
q16 118 r+m/2
c16 117 r+m/2
VP import 120 r+m/2

[1turbofocus]

Yes IF and I use IF loosely VP fuels are that high in octane they must be using a base fuel of 98-100 to mix the ethanol with to = e85 (most pump e85 are 87-94 octane) then they have total control over each batch they make keeping the octane lever where they advertise it at , there if there is water absorbed into the e85 you can loose as much as 3 octane points and no even know it , this is where an a ethanol test kit which I carry in my car for the states with e10 and have pulled away from MANY pumps after testing

e10 fuel only has a shelf life of 90-100 days and if it has water in it and they do the # of days drop even less and thats from the date its mixed at the refinery not the delivered date http://www.fuel-testers.com/gasoline...hanol_E10.html

This is NOT THE SAME when it comes to the watered down crap you buy from the pumps that changes octane with each batch and how long it sits for , If your using the VP E85 then were talking a whole new ball game and yes I would retest and maybe try using E85 again

UPDATE : After talking with a friend of mine at VP he stated they have a C85(E85) race fuel they sell as of last year , it is rated at 98 octane , If VP fuels with there quality controls is only rated 98 should make you go Hmmmmmmmm??????? with what your buying at the pumps , VP fuels and I have a long history to gather love there fuels over the years

From VP fuels http://www.vpracingfuels.com/vp-drag-racing.html
NEW! C85™
If you’re committed to using E85 type fuels, C85 is by far your best choice. Conventional E85 fuels are notoriously inconsistent, requiring up to a two-jet swing in tuning from one batch of E85 to the next. By contrast, C85 is blended with a consistent proportion of ethanol and every other component in every drum. In addition to taking all the guesswork out of tuning, C85 makes up to 4% more power and torque than conventional E85. With higher quality pure components, C85 is superior to E85 in terms of cooling effect, resistance to detonation and even includes corrosion inhibitors to fight the issues presented by ethanol. C85 works well in drag racing, oval track, off road and virtually any other automotive application, in particular forced induction applications due to its lower vapor pressure. Tests of C85 indicate most applications will require richening up by 1 jet size, or 2-3% over current jetting. Note that for racers unwilling to invest in the new carb and expensive fuel system upgrade required for E85, VP’s MS109, VP113 and Q16 continue to be the best race gas alternatives for the money.

TYPICAL VALUES
• Color: Yellow
• Motor Octane: 90
• R+M/2: 98
• Specific Gravity: .793 @ 60°F

My cost per gallon if buying 55 gallons sells for $10.83

Look at the specific gravity of this C85 (E85)

Even there VP100 ethanol is only 100 octane , he was curious where you got your octane # from , Here is a list of all VP fuels octane http://www.vpracingfuels.com/master-fuels-table

Tom

[..:: sleestak ::..]

^^ Well wow, that is quite the post. I see your point and this is also why I carry a tester in my glovebox. It is also why I dont run e85 on a daily basis. But for an addl $100 I got the additional map that was created on class3. This means we tuned for the lowest common denominator (pending I test to make sure). I use the same pumps and test each time. So far it has stayed consistent for me.

Regardless of what octane anyone thinks it is or weather or not you feel its any better than 93, I made significant gains on corn over 93 and I would much rather run it than pump gas and meth.

[enginjoe]

I just watch fuel trims with the scangauge on my column...

[1turbofocus]

STFT are for closed loop , what about open loop , what about knock

Tom

[enginjoe]

I can monitor both at the same time, but the LTFTs are more important here. I also monitor knock, which never happens as far as I've seen, since I run conservative timing. Scan gauges are awesome, you can change what you are monitoring off the OBD buss on the fly and log two variables at a time. Anybody who mods their car this extensively should be running them. Anyway, if I am in tuning mode, I use the Diablosport to log all the important things at the same time. Then I can make graphs or play it back on the computer and send the data to my SCT tuner.

[1turbofocus]

Why would you use only the LTFT ? thats just an avg of what the real time stft (shows whats happening now) , you could be lean or rich and not know it for days STFT is an actual of whats happening with the fueling now, LTFT is an AVG calculated over a long peroid of time , hundreds of miles , neither of which have anything to do with OL/WOT fueling

Why use the diablosport that cannot even log knock on the Focus when you have a SCT that can if you know what PID/DMR to choose ?

Just curious ?

Tom

[enginjoe]

I don't tune or run E85 in my Focus Titanium.

I'm talking about my SRT-4, sorry for the confusion.

If you are looking at LTFTs over time (as you drive the car every day) and make note of the values you see during certain operating conditions, it is easy to see a change in how much fuel the car is having to pull or add since the values don't jump around as much as the STFTs. As soon as the car is warmed up and at the first chance I can come to a stop, a quick glance tells me if things are ok or not ethanol content-wise.

WOT AFRs are monitored by my an AFR gauge, which is also on the column.

[Everlastingboost]

from my experience with a buddies direct injection mazdaspeed 3, e85 and direct injection really don't mix. He had problems with his hpfp and spill valve gunking up. We had to take it apart about oh every 300 miles or so. It had this blank gunk/gel like substance on the fuel parts. I have also heard the the evo guys running into this same issue. Sure he made more power but at what cost? Reliability seemed to go way down. Here is some links from the mazda forums about e85 and direct injection.

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...-issues-79030/

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...l-pump-127238/

How is mexico tom?