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Old 01-11-2013, 11:58 AM   #51
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Not to be a fanboy or anything but Tom's knowledge, advice and wisdom is priceless. I've been lurking the forums for about 5 years and Tom has always been around to help. You can't buy better info than Tom provides for free. I can't say I've ever seen him stand behind any of his opinions without significant backing data or experience. Personally, I feel fortunate that we have his expertise to draw on. I for one do not feel safe using E85 after reading the facts and peoples' experiences. Why risk it, especially for what seem to be negligible gains for the money invested. I also might add that his FF reputation is well earned. You might stand to gain something by listening to an expert.
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:04 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by FreshlyFunkTFocus View Post
Not to be a fanboy or anything but Tom's knowledge, advice and wisdom is priceless. I've been lurking the forums for about 5 years and Tom has always been around to help. You can't buy better info than Tom provides for free. I can't say I've ever seen him stand behind any of his opinions without significant backing data or experience. Personally, I feel fortunate that we have his expertise to draw on. I for one do not feel safe using E85 after reading the facts and peoples' experiences. Why risk it, especially for what seem to be negligible gains for the money invested. I also might add that his FF reputation is well earned. You might stand to gain something by listening to an expert.
Haha, that is very funny. We are talking about E85 in the ST here. Neither Tom nor I are experts in this area. In fact, from my research, nobody is and that was the point of this thread, to find out if someone had tried it in the ST.

I am not an E85 noob. I've been daily driving with it for almost 5 years. I tuned the car myself at first using primitive methods (mapclamp, fuel pressure regulator and boost while monitoring for knock and AFRs) until an SCT programmer was available for the platform.

I personally wouldn't do it on a carb'd car ever. I think fuel injected with a controller that could deal with the variations in ethanol level would be much better. I also think the improvements on an N/A car are limited to the point where I wouldn't do that either.

It sounds like Tom has worked with mostly old school stuff, so now I get where he's coming from. The modern muscle car guys are more likely to be into E85. They don't have to bring their fuel systems 'up to E85 standards'. Hondas, and Nissans are not those kind of cars in general. The LS motor cars (mostly boosted ones), the wrx subarus, the evos, the MS3s, the srt-4s and the boosted mustangs are the main group of people I've observed using it with success.

Again, it's not for everybody, because it's not always readily available and the car needs to be a newer modern car and have the fuel capacity and tuning to run it.
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Old 01-11-2013, 04:32 PM   #53
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I do the later stuff and most of the testing was done on the later EFI cars I have been doing the later FEI and direct injection as well , I like the old school stuff from when I first was learning (mid 90`s) EFI tuning no means am I just tuning older stuff

Hondas and Nissans making 500+ Hp with EFI fits right into what were talking about? and most of what I am talking about is testing with EFI

There is no way I would test e85 in the ST as it isnt built for the fuel , if tested in it some one needs to be vary carefull and have the ability to raise the fuel psi

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Old 01-11-2013, 08:43 PM   #54
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Tom... curious, tune any speed density cars?
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:12 AM   #55
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Yes I have , Tuning some speed density/MAP Focus cars now pre 2010, Not all Foci have MAF

Most all standalone uses speed density and I have tuned with a lot of diff ones , Hondata, Moates , AEM , Pectels , COBB , etc etc

I like MAF better and feel it works better but to each there own they both have a place in the performance world

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Old 01-12-2013, 04:20 AM   #56
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So I am a little curious, I am under the impression a MAP car uses more or less a table that is generated for conditions I.e. temp, altitude to yield the same out put or hp/trq. So map cars do not respond to normal bolts one or they more or less adjust themselves back to the standard state. Is this right? So the right way to tune an e85 car would be to generate a new table with e85 at more or less the extremes? It does not seem like a linear correction factor would work correctly. Is this on par with correct or way off base.
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:48 AM   #57
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MAP cars respond very well to boltons and a performance gain is a gain even untuned and unsafe wont take the gain away just from being MAP , Like a MAF you can run out of MAP (counts / voltage) but in most cases that takes boost and you just change to a 2 BAR or 3+ BAR MAP depending on the amount of boost

Speed density systems calculate the density of the air by measuring the temp of the intake air and manifold psi, with the density of air known the engine ECU then looks up how much air it expects to be moving at a specific engine speed and manifold psi then calculates fuel , Fords have a strange way going about the fueling aspect but it works

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Old 01-12-2013, 05:34 PM   #58
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Thanks... I get it
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:04 PM   #59
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Some of these reasons are why I said to get en E85 tune for fun days, not daily driving. Almost all modern cars are capable of running it, you might have to run bigger injectors and fuel pump because you have to be able to flow it.

The argument about not knowing what comes out of the pump - ghey. You buy a $15 tester and thats that. Tune it on class 3, where you are running essentially e70 and leave a little on the table and so long as you know whats coming out of that pump you have no issues.

For the hippies who are crying about the food source or whatever, I am sure you have plenty of other daily practices that put a hurting on the food supply...but I digress. Either way you are here looking to make more power and that means you are going to burn more fuel. No way around it, some of you even run catless.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:20 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ..:: sleestak ::.. View Post
Some of these reasons are why I said to get en E85 tune for fun days, not daily driving. Almost all modern cars are capable of running it, you might have to run bigger injectors and fuel pump because you have to be able to flow it.

The argument about not knowing what comes out of the pump - ghey. You buy a $15 tester and thats that. Tune it on class 3, where you are running essentially e70 and leave a little on the table and so long as you know whats coming out of that pump you have no issues.

For the hippies who are crying about the food source or whatever, I am sure you have plenty of other daily practices that put a hurting on the food supply...but I digress. Either way you are here looking to make more power and that means you are going to burn more fuel. No way around it, some of you even run catless.


LOL it is the hippies who are demanding ethonol to save mother earth. That makes ethonol a waste right from the start because liberals support it. Never mind it causes smog... and sorry, but corn is one of the largest food staples of the world. Using it for fuel is just plain stupid. Now if they get that algae thing going economicly I wouldn't have much of a problem with it.
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