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Old 10-04-2012, 07:56 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotleadsingerguy View Post
Well, drove home with it off and drove back to work with it off today...not one instance of shuddering. There's a *tiny* bit of clutch slip on takeoff, but that I would expect (same as any manual car)...and it's *GREATLY* reduced from when I have the TCS enabled......
This is good info but I don't think it explains for a lot of folks, including me a while back, why the shuddering starts happening only after 20 mins. or so of driving, or coming off an expressway after a longish trip. In other words, when the tranny is hot. I've seen several of the shuddering compainers say that it only starts after driving for a while.

Nor does it explain why my shuddering completely went away on its own. Unless the TCS logic also 'learns' and adjusts over time. So it may be an answer for some, not for all.
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:57 AM   #72
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I thought traction control systems compared the rotational speed of the drive wheels, not torque, to identify slippage. It would be great if the TCS was the reason for our maladies but I can't quite get clear in my mind why it would be so. It makes sense for those who complain about odd behavior in a 90 degree turn (as drive wheel speeds would be different), but a straight-ahead start?

On the other hand, while my transmission behaves acceptably, to me it feels like the timing retards under low-speed acceleration, resulting in poor throttle response and a surging sensation. As traction control systems can use brakes, throttle and timing changes to deal with a spinning wheel, maybe this is really the cause. I'll give it a try later today.
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:14 AM   #73
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Well tried it and it seemed slightly better but not much. I highly doubt I'll turn it off every single time I crank it cause that gets annoying and since it doesn't really change much then there it isn't a big deal to do so. Oh well.....
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:18 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kam327 View Post
This is good info but I don't think it explains for a lot of folks, including me a while back, why the shuddering starts happening only after 20 mins. or so of driving, or coming off an expressway after a longish trip. In other words, when the tranny is hot. I've seen several of the shuddering compainers say that it only starts after driving for a while.

Nor does it explain why my shuddering completely went away on its own. Unless the TCS logic also 'learns' and adjusts over time. So it may be an answer for some, not for all.
technically the trans should be running very cool on long highway jaunts. No clutch slippage and no gear changes.

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Old 10-04-2012, 08:54 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan50 View Post
I thought traction control systems compared the rotational speed of the drive wheels, not torque, to identify slippage. It would be great if the TCS was the reason for our maladies but I can't quite get clear in my mind why it would be so. It makes sense for those who complain about odd behavior in a 90 degree turn (as drive wheel speeds would be different), but a straight-ahead start?

On the other hand, while my transmission behaves acceptably, to me it feels like the timing retards under low-speed acceleration, resulting in poor throttle response and a surging sensation. As traction control systems can use brakes, throttle and timing changes to deal with a spinning wheel, maybe this is really the cause. I'll give it a try later today.
It might be a latency issue as well, which could explain why responses might be better with TCS turned off. Basically if the different computers need to talk to each other, there is a delay when signals and messages are sent back and forth, answers computed and sent back.

If you have say 3 computers doing this, it is easy for a small lag on two of them to cause a huge bottleneck for the whole system, as components hold up their computations waiting for answers from each other.

So what i wrote is pure speculation, but it would make sense that if one of the main components is just turned off, the remaining ones don't worry about it and do their own thing. Lag is gone.

Terms: Latency: this is the lag of a message going from one node to another. For example if a packet of information is sent from one component to another, it might take .1ms to get there. It doesn't matter what else is happening, this latency will always be there. If that packet is the computed on and sent back, another .1ms of latency is added to the total round trip, plus whatever the computation time took. Depending on how communication is set up between components, you might have many rounds of latency to take into account (which would appear as lag).

gk

Edit:
On my drive, the car seems smoother and slightly more responsive with TCS turned off. I need to test it more to be certain. Also, the car handles wet quite corners really well with TCS off :). I wasn't sure if it was using the stability control stuff on corners all the time or not.

If anyone wants an explanation of why 3 computing devices can slow down a lot under certain conditions that won't happen when there are just two, I can do that. lol. wikipedia does it better than I can. :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadlock
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:57 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slow3v View Post
technically the trans should be running very cool on long highway jaunts.
That is true for typical hydraulic automatics. Not so much for manual transaxles.
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:58 AM   #77
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I don't have a stutter issue, but what I noticed was that it seems to have less resistance to accelerate, and my mpg increased from 33.7 to 34.3 over 60 miles starting at 250 miles into the tank so it should have been stable by that point.
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:17 AM   #78
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A big thank you to everyone who is posting their experiences with traction control!

If you're still having issues, please send me a PM so I can help out. All I need is your VIN, mileage, dealer, and daytime phone number; I'll get to work!

Thanks again,
Crystal
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:19 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smizak View Post
Tried it, still slips and marbles in a blender for me. Maybe I actually have a component problem.
Same here. I think I noticed less shudder off the line, but when I turned TC back on I couldn't get it to shudder again. So it's pretty much inconclusive for me. Clutch still sounds like marbles in a blender, though.
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:21 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by PratoN View Post
Coming from an engineer, I love talking to customers and repair technicians on issues - and they love it too. But marketing says we "lack social skills" or something. Plus, we usually tell them too much. Then word gets out (for example) that "every clutch on every 2012 Focus is bad" and it ends up costing the company too much money. That's why they keep us locked in the basement.

Note: That was just an example - I don't work for Ford. I am, however an engineer stuck working in a basement with desks/cubicle walls from 1970 while the people upstairs are on like... their 4th remodel since 2000.
I hate to laugh, but I've dealt with numerous engineers and totally understand what you're talking about. Very unique people that many 'normies' probably can't handle

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Originally Posted by F35-JSF View Post
I wondeur if the TCS needs to be reworked on all foci. I've stalled more than a few times thinking i didnt give it enough gas or that it didnt have enough torque.
Definitely not all Foci, because there are more people do not have the issue than there are those that do.

That being said, this is really interesting. I have no issues with my DCT, but I feel compelled to try driving with TCS off for a little bit to see if the car responds differently. And, if this is something that is helping some cars, it could be another tool that Ford could utilize in incorporating another possible fix avenue for those that do have the issue. While it won't solve everyone's issues, its beneficial even if it only helps a handful. But the connection would need to be made as to why this works and if no actual parts get replaced then there should be a programming change that keeps the end-user from having to go through such an elaborate process each and every time they drive their vehicle.
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