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Old 09-21-2012, 08:06 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyThIc3LiTe View Post
Cause you can look at all the reviews and comparisons, 9 if not 10 times out of 10 the Focus is winning.
I agree, though some of those wins have been with a 5MT car. And they've lost at least two comparisons pretty much just because of the DCT.

http://bottomline.nbcnews.com/_news/...-the-year?lite

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...an_comparison/

Still love Ford and my Focus, just wish they were better at not giving themselves black eyes.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:19 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by kam327 View Post
I agree, though some of those wins have been with a 5MT car. And they've lost at least two comparisons pretty much just because of the DCT.

http://bottomline.nbcnews.com/_news/...-the-year?lite

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...an_comparison/

Still love Ford and my Focus, just wish they were better at not giving themselves black eyes.


Which is also why most recent reviews are recommending the manual trans to potential buyers.

I also don't believe for a minute that respected mags are panning the dct just to join the bandwagon ... like it or not .... there are serious issues with lots of these transmissions. It seems like when they're right ... they're great .... but when they're not right .... they're bad enough to make the owner dump the car. I've never driven a good one, and I've driven 3.

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Old 09-21-2012, 08:28 AM   #173
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Why Americans Are Perceived As Chronic Complainers

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How do we know the real level of complaints among Australian owners? This forum is populated almost exclusively by Americans and Canadians. Australians are pretty exotic and rare (and welcome) on this forum. I expect if they have complaints they want to voice there are local options they may prefer. Plus, we have had unhappy owners check-in from at least Australia and South Africa, so all is not rosy elsewhere.

I just don't think we should conclude North Americans are chronic complainers or are unable to appreciate the DCT's sophistication based on how few unhappy owners from elsewhere check-in here.
In Australia yearly auto sales are about 1 million. In the US it is about 12 million. The US outsells other countries (Japan, Germany, France, Russia, UK, Italy…) by at least 4 to 1, except China which out sells the US by about 1.5 to 1.
If we could see this form in Chinese I believe we might see more complaints.

Sorry, that should be the US out sells other countries by at least 3 to 1. Japan sells about 4 million.

Last edited by jdetzel; 09-21-2012 at 08:31 AM. Reason: Correction
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:36 AM   #174
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Quote:
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Which is also why most recent reviews are recommending the manual trans to potential buyers.

I also don't believe for a minute that respected mags are panning the dct just to join the bandwagon ... like it or not .... there are serious issues with lots of these transmissions. It seems like when they're right ... they're great .... but when they're not right .... they're bad enough to make the owner dump the car. I've never driven a good one, and I've driven 3.

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I've never driven one that was griding or doing any of the bad things reported. I don't doubt they exist, but I've driven two SE Sport DCT hatches, one SE sport 5MT, one SE 201A DCT sedan, and 2 more SEL DCT hatches and have spent extensive time riding in a third SEL hatch. So far of the ones I've driven none of the DCTs have given me any issues.

I've driven 5 different DCT equipped foci and six total, and they were all well behaved and didn't give me any issues. Not even a potentially abused rental SE from November, 2011 with 17k miles on it. That car still felt solid and very nearly the same as the SEs I'd driven on the steering and handling courses or autocross courses at an SAE event.

Now if my experience is not typical then why do they continue to sell in such large quantities? May there be a few bad units out there, perhaps. But if people complain about the differences between a normal automatic and not genuine issues like a leaky gearbox seal destroying the clutch or an example of faulty adaptive learning then the real issues get buried and won't get fixed properly.

It won't behave like a torque converter equipped planetary automatic transmission and for that I appreciate it more every day. I know of at least two other people who likely feel the exact same way.

I don't like the 6F35, it won't shift into 6th until well past 41 mph, it feels soggy and mushy to drive a car with this gearbox, and it likely won't last as long as a properly functioning DCT. But if it does break thats why we have a warranty and need to get them to actually fix it if something is wrong.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:50 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by suss6052 View Post
Now if my experience is not typical then why do they continue to sell in such large quantities? May there be a few bad units out there, perhaps. But if people complain about the differences between a normal automatic and not genuine issues like a leaky gearbox seal destroying the clutch or an example of faulty adaptive learning then the real issues get buried and won't get fixed properly.
Easy, 1) The continuous $1,500 to $2,000 rebates, 2) lack of research by prospective buyers (as admitted by more than a few on here) and 3) willingness to take a risk on new technology despite some bad press (like me).

Question; what is all this complaining of "differences" you speak of? There have been a few, most notably Allyy, complaining of hill rollback which I agree should be ignored. But for all those complaining of severe suddering or even complete loss of power at takeoff, do you consider that just an inherent characteristic of the DCT that should be accepted? That's by far the most common complaint I see on here, which of late has been most resolved by replacement of clutch packs due to seal leaks or even simple disconnection and reconnection of the battery.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:59 AM   #176
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Easy, 1) The continuous $1,500 to $2,000 rebates, 2) lack of research by prospective buyers (as admitted by more than a few on here) and 3) willingness to take a risk on new technology despite some bad press (like me).

Question; what is all this complaining of "differences" you speak of? There have been a few, most notably Allyy, complaining of hill rollback which I agree should be ignored. But for all those complaining of severe suddering or even complete loss of power at takeoff, do you consider that just an inherent characteristic of the DCT that should be accepted? That's by far the most common complaint I see on here, which of late has been most resolved by replacement of clutch packs due to seal leaks or even simple disconnection and reconnection of the battery.

Exactly ... most people simply don't know. Enthusiasts know ... but most regular consumers just think it's an automatic ... they don't even know what dct means.

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Old 09-21-2012, 12:32 PM   #177
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...That fully supports why so many owners on this forum have "good" cars and so many others have "bad" cars. It's a crap shoot, seemingly dependent on whether you're lucky enough to have a defect-free clutch pack (Dysan911 just reported yet another case of leaking seals requiring a clutch pack replacement - so it wasn't all in his mind after all, imagine that!) and maybe whether the adaptive learning has gotten out of whack (which is why many have reported that unplugging the battery results in a marked improvement)...
Great point! There are a lot of people on the site that say "That's how these transmissions work; you didn't do your research." or "You're not driving it right." (whatever that means) but there are probably a good chunk of people out there with leaking seals who don't even know it!

Meanwhile, they're getting told to "deal with it" from both their dealerships and members on this forum with transmissions that aren't acting up. Sorry. [/RANT]

Anyway, the perception of a bad transmission can't be helping the value of the car.
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Old 09-21-2012, 12:40 PM   #178
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Exactly ... most people simply don't know. Enthusiasts know ... but most regular consumers just think it's an automatic ... they don't even know what dct means.

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Exactly! And Ford sells it as an automatic.
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Old 09-21-2012, 12:54 PM   #179
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I'll just say this,

My friend drives a B8 S4 and he now has a 2012 Titanium.

He actually likes the DCT and isn't surprise by how it behaves.

Know why?

Cause he also drives a S Tronic equipped car so he's well aware of the nuances of a DCT.

Education is paramount.

I'm not saying people aren't having issues, that's obviously not the case.

But how many of these issues are just poor understanding?
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:09 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B-lou View Post
Just look at the general technical chat threads 1538 post on issues with the 2012 focus mostly trans issues and 479 posts on transmission shaking so all those people just do not know how to drive a dct properly and it has nothing to do with a poorly designed tranmission and ford using the general public as their beta testers....maybe ford should offer a class on how to properly drive a dct transmission....give me a break...ford screwed up, period.....B-lou
I don't think they screwed up initially. There are enough people who seem to have no complaints that Ford has a reasonable expectation that the transmission would work properly.
I thing they are in the process of screwing up now. And this is one of “The Big Three”. You know been around 100 years or so.
And now their calling the negative symptoms “Normal Operation”, someone described the noise as “dragging a metal trashcan lid beneath the car”. The jerking and hard shifts, the seeming lack of response to throttle input and so on.
The lack of a fix now, they know they have a problem. Ford simply does not know how to make the troubled transmissions act like the rest. They need to get on the stick and figure it out.
I have been driving Japanese for the last 17 years and I was really proud to have bought American again.
I still am and I love my Focus but as of yet it does now work well enough for me to be proud of it.
I would not recommend it to anyone.
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