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Old 09-14-2012, 09:49 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Mazingo View Post
Between what's on paper and the reality is two things.On paper, the manual is the standard transmission and a 1000$ cheaper,when you go to a dealership you get a different reality.I've bought 10 new cars in 23 years and it's the first time I seen salesman from 3 different dealerships pressuring me out of getting a manual transmission.From the start they tell you,Ford is not making many ,so it's a two months waiting period and then they show you a car with the same equipment you want with the DCT and are ready to sell it for the same price as the manual or even cheaper.I never seen this before.After my problems ,I went to see Mazda,Toyota and Hyundai.I asked for a maual transmission and they either had one in stock or were able to get one in 48 hrs.
Ford was pushing for the DCT and it showed.
So the Initial demand was too low this Ford never made enough?

That's just smart business. They made a lot of DCTs and they sell a lot of DCTs, follow the chain of logic as to what they'll carry more of.

My dealer doesn't have a single manual car save the few Mustangs they have on their lots.

The market has spoken and they are not buying manuals in the numbers they used to
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:46 AM   #82
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Actually I'd say that's a completely irrational way to look at it. Did you ever take a statistics class? The Focus has substantially more transmission complaints than the other cars. Since the population sizes are roughly the same for several of the cars (Cruze, Elantra, etc.) that indicates statistically that the Focus has significantly more problemmatic transmissions than its competition.

I had DCT problems but never reported it to NHTSA. I'm confident there are many many others like me.

And like I said I removed any complaints about hill roll back and the like which I don't think is a valid complaint. That left only complaints about jerking, shuddering, severe bogging down, etc. Issues that were apparently bad enough that the owner took the time to find out where to post a complaint and then actually type out the complaint.





I completely agree, the DCT is not inherently flawed. I know that mine has performed perfectly in the past so I know it's possible. I think it's just that Ford is letting too many of them get too far off specs, probably mostly in terms of the software but clearly there are numerous hardware problems too. They need to keep perfecting it to make it bulletproof no matter what type of driver is driving it.
So since the Focus is the highest selling car it wouldn't seem logical to you it would have the highest number of complaints? You can't post your little list and say 'look how many people are complaining' without taking into account how total cars out there. The Velocitor very well may have a lot less complaints on your list, but if there are fewer of them out there that makes complete sense. The rate of people complaining could very well,be the exact same.

Also I love how you pull out this list to show the level of complaints, then dismiss it as not being an accurate representation of the issue. So why pull it out in the first place?

I'll never deny someone is having problems with their DCT and the transmission itself is the source of the problems. I'm simply disagreeing the transmission overall is 'halfbaked'. If I see something that shows the DCT failure rate is higher than other transmissions I'd agree there is issues across the board. Your list doesn't do this because it doesn't show how many complaints out the total number of cars out there.

As for the pro reviews on the transmission most complaints were more about the programing seeking top gear for effiency, the reviewers themselves don't generally like any automatic transmission, or they are pointing out flaws inherent to any DCT. The only unique complaint I've seen for the Ford is that it goes to top gear too quickly.
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:58 AM   #83
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So since the Focus is the highest selling car it wouldn't seem logical to you it would have the highest number of complaints? You can't post your little list and say 'look how many people are complaining' without taking into account how total cars out there. The Velocitor very well may have a lot less complaints on your list, but if there are fewer of them out there that makes complete sense. The rate of people complaining could very well,be the exact same.
I agree, so here you go. Powertrain complaints per 1,000 vehicles sold.

Elantra: 8 / 351,855 * 1000 = 0.02
Veloster: 3 / 34,602 * 1000 = 0.09
Cruze: 39 / 411,041 * 1000 = 0.09
Focus: 56 / 322,774 * 1000 = 0.17

The Focus is nearly double the Cruze and Veloster and 8-9 times higher than Elantra.

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Also I love how you pull out this list to show the level of complaints, then dismiss it as not being an accurate representation of the issue. So why pull it out in the first place?
That's not what I said. If you ever took a statistics class you'd know what I was getting at.
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:16 PM   #84
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I'm sorry,

Quote:
I had DCT problems but never reported it to NHTSA. I'm confident there are many many others like me.
So this only applies to the Focus? Kinda invalidates your whole point. Guess I'm not smart enough to see what you're saying.

The complaints vs 1000 is more telling, but, is it to the point that you can claim the Powershift is half-baked as a whole?

Guess it comes down to how you come into the issue. We all have our biases. My experience from the different Focus that I test drove to the one that I bought the DCT worked flawlessly. For the first 500km I had a bit of a low speed shutter when I started out into a creep, but that went away as the transmission broke in. Now it is smooth in every situation. When I test drove a different one the transmission was smooth. When I had my car in for a day to get a backup camera my loaner with a DCT drove smooth. If you got into the car and had issue after issue, then I would expect your viewpoint to be different.

I won't deny people having problems and the issues per a 1000 cars is higher than it's contemporaries, but that doesn't lead me to the fact that the transmission as a whole is a lemon. Yet.
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Old 09-14-2012, 02:29 PM   #85
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I'm sorry, So this only applies to the Focus? Kinda invalidates your whole point. Guess I'm not smart enough to see what you're saying.
No, that was in response to your claim that since there were only 56 complaints to the NHTSA, there are only 56 Foci in the whole world with a tranny problem, for a .000003% failure rate or whatever it is you said. My counter is that there are many many more than 56 Foci with a tranny problem out there due to people like me who aren't going to take the time to complain to the NHTSA or similar body.

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The complaints vs 1000 is more telling, but, is it to the point that you can claim the Powershift is half-baked as a whole?
Now you're putting words in my mouth. Look at my post a few posts earlier, I said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kam327
I completely agree, the DCT is not inherently flawed. I know that mine has performed perfectly in the past so I know it's possible. I think it's just that Ford is letting too many of them get too far off specs, probably mostly in terms of the software but clearly there are numerous hardware problems too. They need to keep perfecting it to make it bulletproof no matter what type of driver is driving it.
My reason for bringing up these NHTSA numbers was in response to your post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DayGlow
Ford has sold well over 200,000 Foci across NA and the DCT uptake is probably at least 80% of those. What percentage of those sold would be problem transmissions? Even looking at this forum the polls I've seen about the DCT have less than a 100 people praticipating and off the too of my head the last one about issues with the latest uorate had less than 30 people unhappy with it. Does that show major issues with the transmission? To be generous lets say there are 100 unique individuals posting on this forum complaining of major issues with the transmission does that show that there is a systemic problem across the board with all Focus with the DCT?
This Forum is not a reliable source for judging how many people have an actual problem with their DCT because I believe that for every person who seeks this forum out just to bash their DCT, there are dozens more that don't even know this forum exists and have no desire to seek it out to vent. My gut feeling is that somewhere on the order of 10-20% of Ford DCTs out there have some sort of a shuddering, shifting, or stalling issue caused primarily by the software and secondarily by a small amount of bad hardware. Why would Ford spend the money developing new software updates every 4-6 months otherwise? If it wasn't a significant problem, they would just hang the unfortunate out to dry and accept the fact that they won't get their business again.

You have no more evidence to refute my claim than I have to support it. So it will continue to be an eternal debate.
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Old 09-14-2012, 02:32 PM   #86
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So the Initial demand was too low this Ford never made enough?

That's just smart business. They made a lot of DCTs and they sell a lot of DCTs, follow the chain of logic as to what they'll carry more of.

My dealer doesn't have a single manual car save the few Mustangs they have on their lots.

The market has spoken and they are not buying manuals in the numbers they used to
The initial demand was not low ,Ford simply decided not to produce a lot of manual Focuses.The dealerships have close to zero manual cars,they tell clients that to get a car they got to wait two months and pay more ,yes of course they'll sell more DCT ,because they don't want to sell manual unless the client is very patient and he's ready to open his wallet a little more.

You can't sell a lot of something you decided to sell very little of.And don't tell me that dealerships are stucked with manual SEL or Titanium because this is BS.Chances are that if a dealership orders a few manual Titaniums,the second they will be in the lot and other dealerships will see those on their inventory screens ,they will sell them for their own customers.This is the way it works.And I seen way more DCT sit in lots than manuals because there are simply none.
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Old 09-14-2012, 02:37 PM   #87
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So the Initial demand was too low this Ford never made enough?
Quote:
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The initial demand was not low ,Ford simply decided not to produce a lot of manual Focuses.
See this article on the subject. It says Ford underestimated the demand for manual Foci by half.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/05/01/c...transmissions/
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Old 09-14-2012, 07:43 PM   #88
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No, that was in response to your claim that since there were only 56 complaints to the NHTSA, there are only 56 Foci in the whole world with a tranny problem, for a .000003% failure rate or whatever it is you said. My counter is that there are many many more than 56 Foci with a tranny problem out there due to people like me who aren't going to take the time to complain to the NHTSA or similar body.
That was in response to mr. boom goes the dynamite.
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:42 PM   #89
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That was in response to mr. boom goes the dynamite.
After losing 6000$ on a car that had no business being on the road,I think I got the right to laugh a little bit.
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:03 PM   #90
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After losing 6000$ on a car that had no business being on the road,I think I got the right to laugh a little bit.
It had no right to be on the road?

You're suffering from a little confirmation bias.

Just cause you had major issues doesn't mean we all had major issues and that the DCT is a broken tech.

If the failure rates were Xbox 360 levels, hey you might have a very good point.

But they aren't. Far from it.

If it was such an issue there would be NHTSA mandated recalls in effect and if the DCT tech itself was broken then Every brand that offers one would have dropped it.

So try again with your trolling when your Focus breaks again. Oh wait, you don't even have one anymore. So why keep coming back when clearly you have nothing constructive to say and a rather poor sense of sentence structure and how to use spaces.
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