why no 6th gear? - Focus Fanatics
Ford Focus Forum
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace


Go Back   Focus Fanatics > Ford Focus Third Generation > MK3 Focus

MK3 Focus The place to chat about general questions, window tinting, exterior body, interior and lighting upgrades for the third generation 2012-Current Focus.

Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
Ford Focus Tire & Wheels FocusFanatics Merchandise

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-11-2012, 02:52 PM   #1
Michaelc1220
Focus Enthusiast
 
Michaelc1220's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Fan#: 93834
Location: Woodbridge, VA
What I Drive: 2012 Grey Focus SE hatchback Sport

Posts: 221
FF Reputation: 2 Michaelc1220 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
why no 6th gear?

Im curious why they would limit the manual trans to 5 gears instead of 6 like the automatic. It would most likely bring better gas milage that the 5 speed and would be more traditional for the focus. Any ideas?


Michaelc1220 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 09-11-2012, 02:56 PM   #2
suss6052
Focus Addict
 
suss6052's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Fan#: 95752
Location: ..., MI
What I Drive: 2013 Ford Focus ST2 Ingot Silver

Posts: 12,329
FF Reputation: 23 suss6052 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelc1220 View Post
Im curious why they would limit the manual trans to 5 gears instead of 6 like the automatic. It would most likely bring better gas milage that the 5 speed and would be more traditional for the focus. Any ideas?
The cost is probably a likely factor, after all they didn't plan on building or selling more than 10% of all the MK3 Focus models in the U.S. with a manual, actually they initially predicted only a 5% take rate, where as it was running at nearly double that to nearer to 10%.

As well as the fact that they had already bolted up the MTX-75 to this basic block and its less expensive to certify only one or two power train options than it is to certify a whole raft of them like are available in Europe, including an MMT6 Ford-Getrag 6 speed manual transmission.
suss6052 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 02:57 PM   #3
TboneZX3
Ford Fiend
 
TboneZX3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Fan#: 90494
Location: Jackson, MO
What I Drive: '12 SE Sport, '01 ZX3, '67 Bronco

Posts: 2,179
FF Reputation: 10 TboneZX3 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Cost and supply, most likely. The MTX-75 transmission has been around for a LONG time. It is available and has proven itself to be very durable. It was probably cheaper to stick with this proven, inexpensive trans than to ramp up production and distribution of the 6 speed available in Europe.
__________________
Hatch Nation #90
'12 SE Sport 5Dr |╠╬╝|Sterling Grey Metallic|203a|Moonroof|17" Paint/Mach Whls|K&N 57S-4000|FFE RMM|Steeda STB, RSB|JBR bushings
'01 ZX3|╠╬╝|Pitch Black|Prem. pkg.|Moonroof|SVT Snorkel|SVT Springs|S2 Dampers|Steeda STS|Magnaflow exh.
TboneZX3 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 06:59 PM   #4
Elizabeth
Focus Fanatic
 
Elizabeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Fan#: 89280
Location: SouthEast, WI
What I Drive: '12 Yellow Focus SE stick, 17"rims

Posts: 2,770
FF Reputation: 14 Elizabeth Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Agree the current five speed is 'good enough' and they had it.
Making a new transmission for the small number of manual cars in the USA would have been folly.
When they change engines in a few years they probably will have the six used on the ST with it.
Too many gears sucks anyway*. The ONLY useful sixth gear would have been higher than the current fifth for high speed cruising.
The current compalint of a 'gap' in the gearbox? who is running races all day every day?
Damn, I have to row enough as is..And the only gearing i would want aded is a one further top gear for loafing along at 65 .. 70 mph..

* for all you ready to pounce, i am just making excuses why i should like my 5 speed and be happy.. So get over it.
Elizabeth is online now  
    Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 09:44 PM   #5
frinesi2
Focus Enthusiast
 
frinesi2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Fan#: 95914
Location: Catonsville, MD
What I Drive: 2012 Tuxedo Black SE Sport Hatch

Posts: 169
FF Reputation: 1 frinesi2 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Because the MTX-75 is awesome.
__________________
2012 Focus SE Hatch 5spd sport package, Tuxedo Black Metallic
Road Magnet springs and fuzzy dice on the mirror
frinesi2 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 09:51 PM   #6
MyThIc3LiTe
Focus Addict
 
MyThIc3LiTe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Fan#: 95163
Location: Edmonton, Canada
What I Drive: 2012 Focus Titanium Blue Candy

Posts: 782
FF Reputation: 4 MyThIc3LiTe Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
The MTX75 is akin to the TR6060 or T56.

The transmissions refuse to die and when they do they are hilariously cheap and easy to work on.

The 6 speed would have been nice, but a 5 speed works better for wringing what you want out of a engine like ours.

Cost is a big issue as others have mentioned, even with the higher take rate on the manuals it still wouldn't have made much sense for them to offer the more expensive manual here, and I say that with a chuckle because we are now in the kind of market where making a 6 speed DCT gearbox is considered more cost effective then it is to bring over a 6 speed manual.
__________________
2012 Ford Focus Titanium Blue Candy Hatch 2009 Suzuki Swift+ - Traded in 2006 Lincoln Zephyr - Traded in

http://www.aniteshjaswalphotography.com
If you live in Edmonton, AB I would be more then happy to do a shoot with you!
MyThIc3LiTe is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 10:24 PM   #7
Zillon
Focus Addict
 
Zillon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Fan#: 17393
Location: Philthadelphia, PA
What I Drive: '13 GTI

Posts: 1,387
FF Reputation: 27 Zillon Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (3)
I believe that if Ford offered the car with a 6-speed, they would've lost their argument for buyers to purchase the DCT. I believe the Focus would be capable of better MPG with an additional cog.

"Why get a manual? Our DCT trans gets equal or better fuel economy!"

They couldn't say that if the MK3 had a 6-speed.
__________________
Joined the dark side.
Zillon is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 10:26 PM   #8
suss6052
Focus Addict
 
suss6052's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Fan#: 95752
Location: ..., MI
What I Drive: 2013 Ford Focus ST2 Ingot Silver

Posts: 12,329
FF Reputation: 23 suss6052 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zillon View Post
I believe that if Ford offered the car with a 6-speed, they would've lost their argument for buyers to purchase the DCT. I believe the Focus would be capable of better MPG with an additional cog.

"Why get a manual? Our DCT trans gets equal or better fuel economy!"

They couldn't say that if the MK3 had a 6-speed.
That would only work if it had a similar 6th gear ratio to the DCT. If its just the same as the MTX-75 but with one extra cog in between it really wouldn't do better.
suss6052 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 10:35 PM   #9
Zillon
Focus Addict
 
Zillon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Fan#: 17393
Location: Philthadelphia, PA
What I Drive: '13 GTI

Posts: 1,387
FF Reputation: 27 Zillon Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by suss6052 View Post
That would only work if it had a similar 6th gear ratio to the DCT. If its just the same as the MTX-75 but with one extra cog in between it really wouldn't do better.
In my case, the 6th cog would be a proper OD gear. I personally feel the car revs a bit high on the freeway, and this prevents the 5MT cars from getting better fuel economy.
__________________
Joined the dark side.
Zillon is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 10:42 PM   #10
suss6052
Focus Addict
 
suss6052's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Fan#: 95752
Location: ..., MI
What I Drive: 2013 Ford Focus ST2 Ingot Silver

Posts: 12,329
FF Reputation: 23 suss6052 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zillon View Post
In my case, the 6th cog would be a proper OD gear. I personally feel the car revs a bit high on the freeway, and this prevents the 5MT cars from getting better fuel economy.
The 5MT with the stock 16" wheels and the 0.82:1 5th gear ratio, and 3.82:1 axle ratio is revving 374 rpm more than the DCT with the 16" wheels, with its 0.702:1 gear ratio and 3.85:1 axle ratio. The gap broadens with increased speed until the point where by 80 mph the manual is running nearly 1000 revs more per the gearing calculation.

I've confirmed that the DCT does 2600 rpm at 70 mph (calculated 2584 rpm, so its within the tolerance for the results as the real world is not ideal, and the rolling radius might be slightly off a bit from the book value).

The manual would be over 3000 just like my old Prizm was with its similar gearing.

As speed builds there is no way that the 5MT can be as efficient at higher speeds than the DCT just because its gearing isn't tall enough. The shorter gearing might help the acceleration slightly, but not really.

Of course a 6MT with the same gear ratios or perhaps slightly taller would help close the gap.
suss6052 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks & Social Networks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:09 PM.


Copyright 2002-2014 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : Terms of Use : Privacy Policy : Advertise Information : Site Map

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Acura TLX or Fiesta ST. You can find all Ford Focus and Focus ST related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area.