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Old 09-01-2012, 08:54 AM   #51
Dysan911
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I don't know if this is normal or not but so far the DCT is still shifting great except for any 90 degree turns. Like clock work the tranny is in a peak torque and pulling into the turn just fine and then I let off the gas just a little and make the turn and then it just dies and seems to shift into 6th. I put my foot back on the gas to roll out of the turn and it just stalls for a few seconds and then makes a big downshift and resumes. Is there something in the CAR that it can detect body lean? Like a VSC sensor (Vehicle stability Control) or something like that?

Also the other day I dropped something under the hood and it fell down to the bottom of the engine compartment. I got down in front of the car and removed a couple of those bolts so that I could lower that little engine cover and I noticed a good bead of Oil formed between the Engine and the Trans (it just collected on a protruding metal housing between the two). Now I had just gotten my oil changed recently and I didn't see any signs of oil dripping on the engine cover but I immediately thought of Oil Seals contaminating my clutches. I plan to check it again today (1 week later). My clutches seem to be holding fine other than when it's in 6th and you push down on the gas a little you can hear what sounds like a raccoon in trashcan sound.

Hopefully thats normal. (The sound).
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Old 09-01-2012, 08:59 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strix View Post
Oh, how I wish this was the case.

I feel an obvious loss of acceleration when the transmission shifts, especially under anything more than minimal throttle. It feels like a manual transmission that is being operated by a three-toed sloth.

Not only can you feel it... you can also hear it. The ECM closes the throttle between shifts, and the engine practically shuts down for a fraction of a second while the DCT switches clutches.
That doesn't sound normal to me, as the only time its readily apparent that there is even any sort of power drop would be when shifting at lower speeds in manual mode. In drive or S it is almost imperceptible between shifts no matter how much or how little throttle I apply.
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:00 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by suss6052 View Post
I like my DCT, but if it was acting like crap I certainly would understand the hatred for the technology.

The first AX4N in a 1998 Ford Taurus, that failed on my family failed at 106k just as the car was paid off. The input shaft for the fluid pump that circulated oil between the torque converter and gearbox had sheared the welds and the two parts were spinning at different speeds and not working. My brother's old 03 failed the same way but at 114k miles.
I don't think it's a hatred of the technology per se. I like the DCT, when it's operating perfectly. It's more a dissatisfaction with Ford's implementation of it. And if no one complains, Ford will have less motivation to continually improve it. I hope they do continue to improve it.

You've brought up your family's old Taurus's many times in the past as reason for your hatred of Ford's conventional automatics. That's ancient history though. Let's compare the DCT to Ford's modern automatics. I've owned like 8 or 9 Fords with conventional autos including a couple of the modern 6-speeds. Had a couple of problems but overall they've performed exactly as I expected them to. Can't say that about the DCT.
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:28 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by kam327 View Post
I don't think it's a hatred of the technology per se. I like the DCT, when it's operating perfectly. It's more a dissatisfaction with Ford's implementation of it. And if no one complains, Ford will have less motivation to continually improve it. I hope they do continue to improve it.

You've brought up your family's old Taurus's many times in the past as reason for your hatred of Ford's conventional automatics. That's ancient history though. Let's compare the DCT to Ford's modern automatics. I've owned like 8 or 9 Fords with conventional autos including a couple of the modern 6-speeds. Had a couple of problems but overall they've performed exactly as I expected them to. Can't say that about the DCT.
I've experienced more mechanical trouble with a 6F35 which is very much a current offering than I've ever experienced with the DCT, but I guess you'd say that shouldn't count since it was on the Ford Proving grounds during an Society of Automotive Engineers conference and drive event. The car suffered from a hard engagement into first and was later said to have been slipping in all of the gears with less than 10k miles on it.

This is also why I can't give a free pass to the conventional "modern" 6-speeds.

Its also not as ancient a history as you say it would be since essentially it is the same basic hardware as the conventional automatic hasn't changed much since the 1950s with the exception of more sophisticated electronic controls, more efficient hard ware and lock up clutches since the 1970s.

And yes continuous improvement is necessary for pretty much all of the products that man has asssembled, and I won't say there is nothing that can be done to improve it.

I don't have issues with the current DCT in software or hard ware myself, but that doesn't mean that everything is right as rain on every single unit.

Could it be more dependent on software and therefore sensitive to driver input than a normal automatic usually is? Perhaps, and this might be an issue for some.
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:31 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Timthom62 View Post
... the shifts are smooth as silk - if it weren't for the change in sound and the tach needle, you couldn't be sure it had shifted sometimes. Doesn't matter if you romp on it, baby it, or drive it normally, it's smooth. Ford says that's normal.
That's how mine was before it was updated. It was a very early build (March 2011) and it was just fine for the first 12,000 miles, until my dealership updated the TCM software (without asking my permission).

Now it is terrible.

I'd suspect that something is beginning to fail mechanically, except that most of the behaviors that are driving me crazy are obviously software-related; the hill-start assist being active in 'park' for example, a new annoyance courtesy of 12B37. Every time it gets 'fixed' it gets worse.

If the problem is that one (or both) of my clutches are soaked in oil from a leaky seal, wouldn't that make the TCM throw an error code at me?

Or did Ford cheap out on sensors here, too? It wouldn't surprise me, since they skipped including a temperature sensor, an item that costs literally pennies, in favor of having an algorithm 'guess' at what the trans temperature might be.

Quote:
Well, which one is normal? Is it a hardware issue, a software issue, or different outcomes from the adaptive learning function? I don't know, but I know I'd be pretty pissed about it myself.
Oh, I am. Believe me.
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:37 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suss6052 View Post
I've experienced more mechanical trouble with a 6F35 which is very much a current offering than I've ever experienced with the DCT, but I guess you'd say that shouldn't count since it was on the Ford Proving grounds during an Society of Automotive Engineers conference and drive event. The car suffered from a hard engagement into first and was later said to have been slipping in all of the gears with less than 10k miles on it.

This is also why I can't give a free pass to the conventional "modern" 6-speeds.

Its also not as ancient a history as you say it would be since essentially it is the same basic hardware as the conventional automatic hasn't changed much since the 1950s with the exception of more sophisticated electronic controls, more efficient hard ware and lock up clutches since the 1970s.

And yes continuous improvement is necessary for pretty much all of the products that man has asssembled, and I won't say there is nothing that can be done to improve it.

I don't have issues with the current DCT in software or hard ware myself, but that doesn't mean that everything is right as rain on every single unit.

Could it be more dependent on software and therefore sensitive to driver input than a normal automatic usually is? Perhaps, and this might be an issue for some.
Nonetheless, if Ford offered to replace DCTs with the conventional 6 speed automatic from the new Escape (not that they will), I'd be the first in line. My worry is that if Ford hasn't gotten the DCT right after 18 months of production and 2 model years, maybe they just can't. The dry-clutch DCT is a peripheral product for Ford and will get engineering resources accordingly.
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Old 09-03-2012, 04:33 PM   #57
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Just wanted to add my recent experience on this subject. I disconnected the battery for 15 minutes as others have and followed with the adaptive drive cycle posted elsewhere.

Very surprised and pleased with the results: much better throttle response, less engine bogging, no more lunging and lurching from launch and during 1/2 shift and no more occasional harshness on 4/5 shift. Remarkable difference.

Only drawback is the time it takes, losing trip mileage, time and mpg and having to reset auto up/down windows (phone pairing, station presets,etc are not affected). We'll see if it lasts, but if not this may become just another 5,000 mile maintenance item.

If the DCT does in fact have adaptive learning, something seems haywire in what it learns or how it learns it. Why this is a problem for some and not for others is a mystery.

Anyway, if you're not happy with how your Focus is running you may want to give this a try, as others have suggested.
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:41 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan50 View Post
Nonetheless, if Ford offered to replace DCTs with the conventional 6 speed automatic from the new Escape (not that they will), I'd be the first in line. My worry is that if Ford hasn't gotten the DCT right after 18 months of production and 2 model years, maybe they just can't. The dry-clutch DCT is a peripheral product for Ford and will get engineering resources accordingly.
Yes. I really think Hyundai and Dodge have done it correctly. Put the DCT in more of a sporty fringe model (Veloster) or paired only with the "performance" engine (Dart). Ford should've done the same, maybe only including it with the SE Sport and Ti Handling packages or something. This simply is not a mass market transmission.



My coworker told me this morning he and his uncle rented a Focus at the airport. It was brand new, 6 miles on it. So they were probably only the 2nd driver ever of the car. He said it shuddered so badly out of the lot that they immediately returned it. The clerk took one look at them and said "transmission?" The clerk said this problem is rampant in their fleet and 4 out of 5 Focuses they rent out are returned for a transmission "problem."


In that context, it's hard to see how the Focus is selling so relatively well.
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:42 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan50 View Post
Just wanted to add my recent experience on this subject. I disconnected the battery for 15 minutes as others have and followed with the adaptive drive cycle posted elsewhere.

Very surprised and pleased with the results: much better throttle response, less engine bogging, no more lunging and lurching from launch and during 1/2 shift and no more occasional harshness on 4/5 shift. Remarkable difference.
Hmmm, I wonder if doing this would reset my 6th gear shift point back down to 35 mph.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:18 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by AZfocus2012 View Post
I found it here. although I am not dan50.
http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/s...271673&page=26
Apologies; I didn't see the original post. Thanks for sharing it with me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strix View Post
I just tried this and after a short 1-2 mile drive with many starts and stops, I have to say the DCT is just as terrible as before. I would say that I hope it improves with more driving, but I've given up hoping for anything better.

I was one of the people who was fairly happy before all these updates... now I hate driving my car. I'll be trading it in sooner rather than later...
I'd like to escalate this with your regional Customer Service Manager; please PM me your VIN, mileage, phone number, and preferred servicing dealer.

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Originally Posted by Kaaru View Post
...Send you a PM about this. Also, Thanks for the follow up. I had 12B37 done around the end of May 2012 and the tranny worked very, very well for a few weeks. I have then notified my dealer about the tranny reverting back to it's bad behavior. My dealer must be pretty darn good as he was able to establish a diagnostic via email an told me my tranny was working just fine...
Wow; an e-mail diagnosis, huh? I have properly documented your VIN (from a PM you sent me earlier).

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZfocus2012 View Post
Ford definitely took a step backwards with V4.0. Is it me or does it seem like all they did was make "D" more like "S" and "S" more like "D". Seems I can barely tell any difference in the two where as before it was an obvious difference...
Quote:
Originally Posted by suss6052 View Post
Is there something wrong with the adaptive learning, or is it learning bad habits from the drivers, but if that was the case then why bother with adaptive learning and just stick with a set shift point rather than custom tailoring the programming to the unit and its driving conditions?

I don't know, since mine shifts about how I would expect it to, early and often up at light throttle, medium throttle raises the shift points depending on how far you push it, if you coast down and its downshifting all the time but then suddenly accelerate it holds the lower gear to higher revs as it accelerates and readies the next gear...

Once it's learned the clutch touch points and gear positions it could just shift according to speed and load, but that would be far too easy apparently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JesseE1981 View Post
It's not just the shift points, it's HOW it shifts. Mine literally jerks into gear, slips into gear, and sometimes sputters in a gear (or neutral I think) before finally shifting into the next gear. Today it was absolutely terrible.....and the behavior inconsistent from one day to the next, but seems to be really bad the hotter it gets outside. It was pretty warm today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kam327 View Post
I'm sorry, but an "auto" transmission that is supposed to be fully protected by the software (e.g. preventing travel into too-high or too-low rpm ranges) should not be able to be foiled by the actions of the operator. Ford chose the DCT which is potentially more software-dependent than any transmission to come before it. Therefore the software should guarantee proper operation independent of the driver. Period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timthom62 View Post
That's exactly the case with the DCT, and probably something Ford should make more clear.

Part of the benefit of the dual clutch transmission is that when one shaft is engaged, the PCM and TCM have already enabled the next expected gear on the disengaged shaft. So if you're in 5th and accelerating, 6th gear is already engaged on the opposite shaft and waiting for the clutch to engage. The point being to prevent the lag between shifts that was normal with a standard automatic transmission...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabigon View Post
...if you are in 5th gear, 6th gear will not be pre-selected until you hit ~74 MPH.

Gear selection (for the next gear) often takes place at the time of the upshift.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysan911 View Post
I don't know if this is normal or not but so far the DCT is still shifting great except for any 90 degree turns. Like clock work the tranny is in a peak torque and pulling into the turn just fine and then I let off the gas just a little and make the turn and then it just dies and seems to shift into 6th...
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan50 View Post
Nonetheless, if Ford offered to replace DCTs with the conventional 6 speed automatic from the new Escape (not that they will), I'd be the first in line. My worry is that if Ford hasn't gotten the DCT right after 18 months of production and 2 model years, maybe they just can't. The dry-clutch DCT is a peripheral product for Ford and will get engineering resources accordingly.
Hey everyone -

I'll try to get in touch with our contact in hopes to find out more about the DCT/12B37 program. I hope to obtain information on the shift points too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan50 View Post
...I disconnected the battery for 15 minutes as others have and followed with the adaptive drive cycle posted elsewhere.

Very surprised and pleased with the results: much better throttle response, less engine bogging, no more lunging and lurching from launch and during 1/2 shift and no more occasional harshness on 4/5 shift. Remarkable difference.

Only drawback is the time it takes, losing trip mileage, time and mpg and having to reset auto up/down windows (phone pairing, station presets,etc are not affected). We'll see if it lasts, but if not this may become just another 5,000 mile maintenance item.

...Anyway, if you're not happy with how your Focus is running you may want to give this a try, as others have suggested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kam327 View Post
Hmmm, I wonder if doing this would reset my 6th gear shift point back down to 35 mph.
Thanks for letting us know about this; I'm sure others will try to follow suit.

Thomas
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