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Old 07-25-2013, 09:07 AM   #1
bnoon
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Anyone else running straight E85 tune?

I just started out modding this car, but one of the first things I wanted was to run a straight E85 tune. Now I know that the flex fuel thing is OK from the factory, but factory E85 tuning is hardly optimized for running on this fine "race-gas for the street" fuel. Needed more timing!!! Torrie said he added a bunch of timing in the base maps, but after some logging and test drives the car is seeming to like +4 degrees global added on top of that!!! After trims settle down I'll send him some logs to make needed adjustments. There could be more lurking!!!

MPG's: For comparison, MPG dropped to about 24-25 for the first full tank of E85 on the stock tune. The first tank with Unleashed tune was 28, and this morning with +4 degrees global I pulled an indicated 35 MPG (been within 1 MPG calculated vs indicated on the dash so far). 90% highway driving for me, running about 4-5 MPH over speed limits with cruise set on fairly flat ground, full throttle entrance ramps though!

Before I get a dyno run to see what she's putting down, I'm going to at least wait until I get a header and MS3 catback put on. Until then, I know I'm putting down more power simply by first gear runs on the same "test track" near my house. 1st gear has no issues with stock tune, with E85 tune (even without any added tweaks yet) 1st gear flashes the traction control at me and the bog between 1st and 2nd shift is gone. This is roll-on to flat foot i.e. clutch fully out, then flooring it. #progress


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Old 07-25-2013, 10:09 AM   #2
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28 is good for E85, but not enough to make up the price difference for me, though you probably can get a lot more power
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:10 AM   #3
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Nice. I didn't realize that unleashed had started tuning the mk3 na Focus. That's good news.
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:42 AM   #4
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Dyno charts asap!!! should be a nice boost in hp compared to the 91 octane tunes ext. But I've never seen a n/a e85 tune before. But The tune would def help a boosted car more I ran a e85 tune in my evo it allowed me to run. 28 psi with no problems it added a nice amount of free cheap power comes out to be 100-108 octane pretty cheap for racing fuel. The reason I don't have a tune is because I can't run e85 but I guess I can now thanks for the swell news sir
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:55 PM   #5
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I ran corn fuel in my 2003 Silverado SS and could run about 3-4 degrees more timing across the board with it and pull 21-22 mpg highway, which was 2-3 less than 91 on that vehicle. With nearly 1.00 difference in gas vs. e fuel, the cost per miles goes down with that small of difference in MPG. Hoping to achieve the same thing here. The key is optimizing the tune for full time e fuel.
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:11 PM   #6
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There is NO E85 that will test 100-108 octane , Dont believe that have some tested , I did , its junk wouldnt run it at all
E85 doesnt have a rating at the pumps because they mix it with such junk no 2 batch are the same , you shouldnt run E85 or tune for it is my opinion

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Old 07-25-2013, 01:58 PM   #7
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I've never had any issues tuning for it since 2003 and never had any tests vary beyond any other fuel specs. They blend it with 87 octance, just like any of the other e-blended fuels. Perhaps the "crap" in your area due to poor economy of the e-fuels themselves, but around here it holds true to 103-105 octane race gas.
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:30 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
There is NO E85 that will test 100-108 octane , Dont believe that have some tested , I did , its junk wouldnt run it at all
E85 doesnt have a rating at the pumps because they mix it with such junk no 2 batch are the same , you shouldnt run E85 or tune for it is my opinion

Tom

Can I see your results because I can send you dyno results all day from tons cars and articles proving that e85 tuning is legit maybe you got a bad batch .how about Google e85 vs 93 octane. I mean my evo was tuned in house by ams on e85 one of the best evo tuning companies in the land... They wouldn't tune cars on it if it didn't work
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:04 PM   #9
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I have had it tested , I own my own Dynojet dyno and I can show you just as many articals about how bad it is and how many engines it has blown

I not like most on here that articals said , my friends buddy said , the dyno shop said , I have tested it because I wanted it to work , IT DOESNT , its NOT mixed with 87 fuel if it was it wouldnt cost less then 87 , it takes more fuel to get the job done and in the end it cant

E85 is NOT 100+ octane , it gets its octane effects from cooling the charge not just that it is suppose to have a higher octane rating , I love the guys that dont understand E85 but want to argue about it , run what you want its your engine , I wont run it or tune for it .... I know how bad it is first hand by using it and testing it on and off a dyno
If it makes you feel better then run it , why should I care

Tom
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Old 07-26-2013, 08:59 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
I have had it tested , I own my own Dynojet dyno and I can show you just as many articals about how bad it is and how many engines it has blown

I not like most on here that articals said , my friends buddy said , the dyno shop said , I have tested it because I wanted it to work , IT DOESNT , its NOT mixed with 87 fuel if it was it wouldnt cost less then 87 , it takes more fuel to get the job done and in the end it cant

E85 is NOT 100+ octane , it gets its octane effects from cooling the charge not just that it is suppose to have a higher octane rating , I love the guys that dont understand E85 but want to argue about it , run what you want its your engine , I wont run it or tune for it .... I know how bad it is first hand by using it and testing it on and off a dyno
If it makes you feel better then run it , why should I care

Tom


I run it because I have tested it, on dyno and off dyno. If there's anyone that doesn't understand E85 here it is you. You said yourself that you couldn't make it work, while so many others in the world can and do. The only engines I've seen blow on this fuel are ones that ran too lean due to improper tune, or adding too much timing too soon. E85 can mask detonation to a point where you can add too much timing and not know it unless you start at a low point, work your way up, then stop adding timing when it stops making power, maybe even back off a little bit. Guess you better tell Koenigsegg to stop making 20% more power on E85 than with gas in their CCXR!

It is true that the natural chemical octane levels of E85 are much lower like 94-98, the EFFECTIVE octane of the fuel is 100-108 because of the higher volume of fuel required to release the same amount of energy. THAT'S A GOOD THING! Typically about 35% more fuel is needed from my testing to run the same HP levels. But then you add more timing and more fuel and you could be running as much as 50% more fuel at even higher HP levels after you take advantage of that higher effective octane. You can run a non-E85 compatible vehicle on E85 without a tune by simply swapping the fuel injectors for 35% larger ones, no other changes provided the fuel pump is large enough to supply the larger injectors properly. I've done it on several cars and the state of Iowa has done the same thing on several fleets of vehicles (DOT, Iowa State University vehicles, state officials, etc).

Which by the way, the addition of 35-50% more fuel in itself cools the charge, plus the ethanol burns at a slower/cooler temperature than gasoline. Those two things are where the cooling effect comes from.

It is ABSOLUTELY mixed with 87 petroleum fuel! Just like 89 octane mid grade is 10 percent ethanol (or e10) mixed with 87 octane fuel. Blender pumps are also gaining popularity here in the midwest to automatically blend the fuel right at the pump. I've been to the local bio fuel facilities, taken their tours, had them as customers. I've seen the whole process from grain and field debris delivery all the way through to the final mixing and holding stations. The reason it's cheaper is because the ethanol is subsidized to promote renewable resources until the process reaches a sustainable level of its own. And that's really only here in the US, Brazil has had E100 available at the pumps for over a decade and it's totally unsubsidized and proven to work.
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