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Old 08-13-2012, 04:55 PM   #11
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No DCT, different engines, and the platform bugs should be worked out because its had additional revisions from the Focus. Two of the three engines were already being used in the US, and the 1.6T has been out for a few years in Europe. There will still probably be a few kinks, but you can't order a 2012 Escape of Fusion. It is just dealer stock now.
Yeah because the inferior 6F35 is somehow better than the DCT or more durable, even though its only a few years older. I don't know, but I still don't really trust any product coming out of the Van Dyke Assembly as historically they have been very terrible and virtually every single one my family interacted with failed. And at least the last two failed identically, one AX4N, one 4F50N, both lost the torque converter input pump shaft that basically drives all the hydraulics and meant no forward drive, the first time was not so bad because we were near to my grandparents apartment and the nice Police man took me and my grandmother to her apartment so we could get her 1999 Taurus after the transmission failed in my dad's 1998.

The second time was in the middle of nowhere in Ohio headed back from Cedar Point along State Route 2. This was of course the last day of a long weekend and I had my first day of work at my new job that was the one I'd have when I graduated university, that was a hell of an adventure trying to get home before the end of the evening. We'd left the park by mid afternoon, no later than 4pm, but we were only about 20 miles or so out if we'd even made it that far from when we stopped to eat first. The tow truck didn't arrive for several hours on the side of the road, then they only took us as far as Alexis Road, but not before making several inappropriate comments about strip clubs, hookers, and why wasn't he home yet since it was allegedly this redneck's birthday and he was waiting to get some back at home.

Long story short it took way too long to get back all because the car wasn't terribly reliable all because of its van dyke assembled transmission.
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:28 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by bball40dtw View Post
No DCT, different engines, and the platform bugs should be worked out because its had additional revisions from the Focus. Two of the three engines were already being used in the US, and the 1.6T has been out for a few years in Europe. There will still probably be a few kinks, but you can't order a 2012 Escape of Fusion. It is just dealer stock now.
If you read csvt's original post, which he linked in the first post of this thread, almost none of his gripes had to do with the DCT, engine, or platform. Most appeared to be interior electronics gremlins or build quality issues.
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:43 PM   #13
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:45 PM   #14
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Thanks everyone for the support and the positive comments!

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I guess I find myself wondering why the Escape isn't at risk of having some of the same bugs as the Focus, being the first model year of an "all-new" design and all. I think if I'd had such a bad experience with my Focus I'd try to get into a '12 Escape or Fusion, in other words something with a few model years behind it so the kinks are already worked out.
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Originally Posted by bball40dtw View Post
No DCT, different engines, and the platform bugs should be worked out because its had additional revisions from the Focus. Two of the three engines were already being used in the US, and the 1.6T has been out for a few years in Europe. There will still probably be a few kinks, but you can't order a 2012 Escape of Fusion. It is just dealer stock now.
Well said and spot on. I didn't want to go back to the old architecture, already had a 2010 Fusion and didn't ever consider the Escape before the new one--they were nice vehicles but a step back in interior plastics and NVH compareed to the 2012 Focus. Looked at the 2013 Edge, but they wanted 41K sticker for the Ecoboost and all the options (some not available on Edge) I got on the Escape. Escape stickered for 33K loaded, which was a deal compared to the Edge. Looked at the Taurus SHO, way too expensive 42-44K and gas mileage wasn't there--I drive 80 highway miles a day.

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Yeah because the inferior 6F35 is somehow better than the DCT or more durable, even though its only a few years older. I don't know, but I still don't really trust any product coming out of the Van Dyke Assembly as historically they have been very terrible and virtually every single one my family interacted with failed. ....big snip...........

Long story short it took way too long to get back all because the car wasn't terribly reliable all because of its van dyke assembled transmission.
Yea, you tell this story everytime a defense on transmissions is needed. They did have shift flare problems on the 2010 Escape and Fusion (two years ago) which was fixed with a new valve body. Other issues were with trans software reprogramming. They are using the 6F35 transmission on all Ecoboost Edge, Escape, Explorer, and all 2010-2012 2.5 and 3.0 Fusion, along with the all new 2013 Fusion. I hope Ford wouldn't risk widespread issues with this trans used so many of their vehicles. I guess time will tell but it doesn't take much to be better than the DCT. Comparing this trans with your old Taurus AX4N and 4F50N is irrelevant.
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:47 PM   #15
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If you read csvt's original post, which he linked in the first post of this thread, almost none of his gripes had to do with the DCT, engine, or platform. Most appeared to be interior electronics gremlins or build quality issues.
To clarify, I did have issues with the DCT -- just not outlined in the original post. It still had the shutter after 23K miles, shift flare issues, and poor shift logic/habits. Never had the grinding others had, thankfully.
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Old 08-13-2012, 06:08 PM   #16
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Thanks everyone for the support and the positive comments!

Yea, you tell this story everytime a defense on transmissions is needed. They did have shift flare problems on the 2010 Escape and Fusion (two years ago) which was fixed with a new valve body. Other issues were with trans software reprogramming. They are using the 6F35 transmission on all Ecoboost Edge, Escape, Explorer, and all 2010-2012 2.5 and 3.0 Fusion, along with the all new 2013 Fusion. I hope Ford wouldn't risk widespread issues with this trans used so many of their vehicles. I guess time will tell but it doesn't take much to be better than the DCT. Comparing this trans with your old Taurus AX4N and 4F50N is irrelevant.
Considering a 2011 Fusion slammed abruptly into first gear with less than 10,000 miles on it I don't believe for a second that the problems are cured in the absolute sense.

I wish you the best of luck with the car. The 2013 Escape's I've driven have been great, but that 2011 Fusion (which was last year and not two years ago by the way later overheated and failed that same day.

Just because they are using it in a lot of vehicles does not mean that its a good transmission, they had done the same thing with the AX4N/4F50N and look how well that worked out for them. To be fair a lot of that might have been because the previous owners never changed the fluid, or if they had changed it they hadn't done it at the recommended 15-30k miles.

That wasn't meant as a defense of the DCT at all, but rather a warning that unless the car is properly maintained, it is certainly will fail due to fluid breakdown if nothing else. Even if its properly maintained however the older ones were known to fail. If history holds to be true then they are in world of hurt, however if they have done their homework correctly, particularly since they actually worked with GM's Hydramatic division in this case it might be an acceptable transmission this time, but only time will tell. I have a slight bias against this type of transmission, but it has its place, primarily for those who don't want anything to do with feeling the mechanical act of driving.

Just because I like my DCT doesn't mean I have to defend it to those who either don't like it, or have had units with software or physical defects.

To those with leaky gearbox seals that leaked into the clutch housing and destroyed the clutch pack, or had issues with the servos or mechatronics I wish you the best of luck in getting ford to acknowledge this and repair it in a timely manner, but if its a matter of not being compatible with the transmission then I wish you the best of luck in finding a nice comfortable torque converter automatic to glide from place to place.

Just because I haven't had issues with mine doesn't mean that there weren't defective units. Mine just happens to be one of the majority that isn't.
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Old 08-13-2012, 07:02 PM   #17
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Glad that you got everything resolved. As someone who went through Lemon Law procedings, and ultimately a buy back, back in '90 on a Ranger, I've felt your pain.
Glad to hear that you stuck with the Blue Oval. Good luck with the Escape.
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Old 08-13-2012, 07:17 PM   #18
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You seem happy with the outcome, so I gather Ford did much better than fair market value on the trade-in?
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:15 AM   #19
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You seem happy with the outcome, so I gather Ford did much better than fair market value on the trade-in?
The only thing I had to pay was a charge for the mileage, and the price difference between the two vehicles. They paid for everything else: sales tax, registration, title fees, etc.

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Glad that you got everything resolved. As someone who went through Lemon Law procedings, and ultimately a buy back, back in '90 on a Ranger, I've felt your pain.
Glad to hear that you stuck with the Blue Oval. Good luck with the Escape.
Thank you! All I have ever owned was Ford (almost 20 of them, some new some used). It was tempting to go look at another brand when I was in the thick of things, though.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:38 AM   #20
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Thank you! All I have ever owned was Ford (almost 20 of them, some new some used). It was tempting to go look at another brand when I was in the thick of things, though.
I too am glad you stuck with Ford and I sincerely hope your experience with the new Escape is a much different one. Happy driving.
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