Lemon Law

[xpartmgr]

Originally Posted by hotleadsingerguy

I'm not sure you understand how the Lemon Law works...it's basically only for when you buy a car that doesn't operate. No matter what problems you have with the car, unless it's caused near-death experiences and fails to start on a regular basis (and the dealer *refuses* to attempt to fix it), you don't have a case.

Just letting you know...since the dealership is still attempting to help you, you can't "lemon law" the car. Not how it works. I hate to say it...but these are the things a warranty is for. There's bound to be a car or two out of every few thousand that doesn't operate up to the bar the rest do. You got unlucky, but at least Ford is continuing to try and help.

Dude do not post stuff when you clearly have no idea what you are talking about! If you plan to comment at least know what you are saying is true.

This is from the BBB website:
This information is not intended as legal advice. Please direct specific questions to your legal counsel.
© 2006, Council of Better Business Bureaus, Inc.
Kansas
1
STANDARDS OF THE KANSAS LEMON LAW
The following is a brief explanation of most relevant provisions of the Kansas lemon law.
The complete text of the lemon law can be found at Kansas Stat. Ann. section 50-645 et
seq.
VEHICLES COVERED
The Kansas lemon law covers a new motor vehicle sold or leased in Kansas, that is
registered for a gross weight of 12,000 pounds or less. The lemon law does not cover the
customized parts of motor vehicles that have been added or modified by second stage
manufacturers, first stage converters, or second stage converters. Guidance from the
Kansas Attorney General’s Office indicates that the lemon law does not cover used
vehicles.
CONSUMERS COVERED
The lemon law covers the original purchaser or lessee, for purposes other than resale, of
a motor vehicle.
VEHICLE CONVERTERS
The lemon law does not apply to vehicle converters.
PROBLEMS COVERED
The lemon law covers any problem that does not conform to all applicable warranties.
This is referred to as a nonconformity. The Kansas lemon law provides manufacturers
with an affirmative defense if it can be shown that:
1. An alleged nonconformity does not substantially impair the use and value of the
vehicle; or
2. A nonconformity is the result of abuse, neglect or unauthorized modifications or
alterations of the motor vehicle by a consumer.
MANUFACTURER’S DUTY TO REPAIR
If a motor vehicle does not conform to all applicable warranties, and the consumer
reports the nonconformity to the manufacturer, its agent or authorized dealer during
the term of any warranties or within one year following the date of the motor vehicle’s
original delivery to a consumer, whichever comes first, then the manufacturer, its agent
or authorized dealer must make the necessary repairs to conform the motor vehicle to
the warranties. The necessary repairs must be made even if the warranty term or the one
year period has expired.
This information is not intended as legal advice. Please direct specific questions to your legal counsel.
© 2006, Council of Better Business Bureaus, Inc.
Kansas
2
MANUFACTURER’S DUTY TO REPURCHASE OR REPLACE A VEHICLE
If the manufacturer, its agents or authorized dealers are unable to conform the motor
vehicle to any applicable warranty after a reasonable number of attempts, then the
manufacturer must either replace or repurchase the motor vehicle.
REASONABLE NUMBER OF REPAIR ATTEMPTS
The Kansas lemon law establishes a presumption that a reasonable number of attempts
has been undertaken to conform a motor vehicle to the express warranty if any of the
following occurs:
1. During the term of any warranty or within one year following the date of the motor
vehicle’s original delivery to a consumer, whichever comes first, the same
nonconformity that substantially impairs the use and value of the motor vehicle to
the consumer has been subject to repair four or more times by the manufacturer, its
agents or authorized dealers, and the nonconformity continues to exist;
2. During the term of any warranty or within one year following the date of the motor
vehicle’s original delivery to a consumer, whichever comes first, the motor vehicle is
out of service due to repair for a cumulative total of 30 or more calendar days; or
3. There have been ten or more attempts by the manufacturer, its agents or authorized
dealers to repair any nonconformities that substantially impair the use and value of
the motor vehicle to the consumer.
The term of any warranty, the one year period, and the 30 day period are extended by
any period of time during which repair services are not available to the consumer
because of war, invasion, strike, fire, flood or other natural disaster.
NOTICE TO THE MANUFACTURER
The presumption that a reasonable number of repair attempts has been undertaken
does not apply against a manufacturer unless the manufacturer has received actual
notice of the nonconformity.
DISPUTE RESOLUTION
If the manufacturer has established an informal dispute settlement procedure that
complies with 16 C.F.R. Part 703, the provisions requiring refund or replacement do not
apply unless the consumer has first resorted to the informal dispute settlement
procedure.
TIME PERIOD FOR FILING CLAIMS
Not specified. Assuming that the UCC statute of limitations applies, a claim must be
filed with BBB AUTO LINE within four years from the date the alleged defect is
discovered.
This information is not intended as legal advice. Please direct specific questions to your legal counsel.
© 2006, Council of Better Business Bureaus, Inc.
Kansas
3
REMEDIES UNDER THE KANSAS LEMON LAW
REPURCHASE
The Kansas lemon law sets out the following amounts that a manufacturer must pay
when it repurchases a motor vehicle under the lemon law:
1. The full purchase or lease price; and
2. All collateral charges;
3. Less a reasonable allowance for use.
Refunds must be made to the consumer and lienholder, if any, as their interests may
appear.
The reasonable allowance for use is that amount directly attributable to use by the
consumer and any previous consumer prior to the first report of the nonconformity to
the manufacturer, agent or dealer, and during any subsequent period when the motor
vehicle is not out of service by reason of repair. The reasonable allowance is calculated
from the most recent edition of Your Driving Costs, published by the American
Automobile Association.
REPLACEMENT
When replacing a vehicle under the Kansas lemon law, the manufacturer must provide a
comparable vehicle under warranty. The reasonable allowance for use appears not to
apply to a replacement.

[xpartmgr]

Originally Posted by I Bleed Ford Blue

He's right, but if you keep pushing the issue (and get a lawyer involved) ford will most likely buy the car back and give you a huge discount on the purchase of another vehicle just to shut you up and get you to go away. That what they did for me when I had a 2000 focus that was in the shop for all kinds of electrical gremlins that they could never figure out.

Issues #9 and 10 are happening on mine also, but they did not occur until I upgraded to version 3.02 of the MFT software

No and neither are you.

[xpartmgr]

Originally Posted by forceflow2

This is absurdly wrong. You don't know how they work.



No he isn't. At all. A vast majority (if not all) states have in their lemon laws that if it is under repair for 30 days (cumulative) within the first year (a lot of them don't specify a date, it's just that after a certain mileage your car ends up being worth nothing according to the law so you're wasting your time filing) it is classified as a lemon.

Thanks, I hate when people write stuff when they have no clue what they are talking about.

33 days in the shop qualifies this car to be considered a lemon. I might not win, but I will try.

[I Bleed Ford Blue]

Originally Posted by xpartmgr

No and neither are you.

Dude I was just trying to help, no need to get snippy.

When ford bought back my 2K focus, it took me 2 and 1/2 years to get them to do it. I believe it was mostly because I finally got a lawyer involved. Under Ohio's lemon law I did not qualify, I had the car too long. All I was trying to do is inform you to make sure you have all your ducks in a row before you try. Believe me, Ford, GM, and Chrysler deal with lemon law cases on a daily basis and they are good at it. If you go against them unarmed and with no lawyer, you will likely lose.

[forceflow2]

Originally Posted by xpartmgr

Thanks, I hate when people write stuff when they have no clue what they are talking about.

33 days in the shop qualifies this car to be considered a lemon. I might not win, but I will try.

If you have supporting paperwork it shouldn't be too terribly hard. That's one of the issues I am running into, my dealership tends to not give me paperwork, despite being legally required to. When it was out for 2 weeks due to the steering TSB (wobble, which isn't as bad, but is still there) it took over a month to get them to actually give me anything stating they had done any work. I've pretty much just stopped taking it in since it doesn't help and just seems to waste my time.

They did get me to bring it in this Monday because they stated they had a "pile of parts" for me. When I asked what they were they said they didn't know except for a seat rail, but that it should be for all my outstanding issues. Turned out to be a seat rail and a new button for the cruise control (not sure how that's a "pile of parts"). I had the car in for those things more than a month ago. I asked them about some of the other issues and they said they'd ordered some more stuff so if I don't hear from them, I should give them a call in two weeks. Currently balancing my desire to hit 30 days with my need to have a car.

[Kabigon]

To the OP:

Have you driven a 2012 with an automatic that you are happy with?

[Burns098356GX]

How did that car spend over a month in the shop? Most of those things listed were either simple recalls they can do in an hour, or MFT problems.

Seems fishy.

Sent from my HTC-Z710a using FF Mobile

[TheGlassMaker]

Some cars just have loud road noise and suspensions. Nothing can be done it's just the way they are made. A 5 speed would fix the trans problems and tires are probably causing the front end vibration.

[Quantos]

Damn, the more I read about these issues the more happy I am that I have an manual transmission SE. No transmission issues, no MFT issues, no Sync issues, and the list goes on!

[Burns098356GX]

Originally Posted by Quantos

Damn, the more I read about these issues the more happy I am that I have an manual transmission SE. No transmission issues, no MFT issues, no Sync issues, and the list goes on!

I think most people that are still complaining havent had their updates.
My transmission had the updates and works fine now.
My MFT had the updates and is fine.

Also, people love to complain.