Flex Fuel...Why?

[Chaddz3]

Don't get me wrong... the idea of trying to come up with alternative fuels isn't a bad thing... but its not there yet... ethanol in my opinion doesn't work very well... from a practical standpoint... it simply does not have a high enough energy content. along with the other issues it has..

Hydrogen based setups.. first being potentially dangerous because unless its in a liquid state requires it to be stored as a gas at high pressure. same risks as CNG has.. that and theres the "water" problem.. H + O = energy output and water.
since the exhaust from hydrogen is water, if we use it as a primary fuel source, what are we going to do with all the water? and since it creates water, in areas where the temperature drops below freezing.. that water is going to collect on the roadway and freeze... be like driving constantly during an ice storm if the traffic flow is dense enough and its below freezing.. not to mention when it warms up, its going to mix with the dirt on the road and constantly be thrown up on your windshield...

Hybrids and electrics... most of those are just too damn expensive to be practical. and with some of them .. well unless all you do is put around town.. you can only drive so far before you have to recharge, and that takes too long to do right now.. get it where you can drive an electric up to 500 miles on a charge at 80 MPH and when recharging is needed you can fully recharge in 5 minutes... then it might work..

The only one i've seen so far that works the best is probably that Bio/Soy Diesel stuff... That seems to be the most practical one so far. It'll work in almost every diesel engine with minimal modification, and produces acceptable power and efficiency. and its cheap enough...

Maybe instead of trying to force ethanol, maybe instead use a blend of soy oil/ corn oil and other vegetable/animal based diesel blends with some petrol based diesel mixed in to it.. and start building diesel engines that can burn almost anything that can atomize.

[darkangelism]

algae based bio diesel wont mess food crops, and can be made in less ideal growing conditions

[cessna1]

Darkangelism is right that the corn for ethanol is not people food but livestock feed. A third of every bushel that goes to the ethanol plant comes back out to feed livestock. It is high protein so higher inclusion rates are possible than straight corn. Also, cobie is wrong about all the corn being irrigated---actually very small percent is irrigated---I'm totally dependent on rain for my crops. Been doing my best to notill the crops to save soil and build organic matter that holds moisture better for these dry times. And no, I don't use more chemicals but try to be smart with the ones I do use.

[unfocused1]

Another reason to use ethanol-free:

Fiberglass gas tanks will erode over time due to the presence of ethanol.



So far, driving 20 miles (city), the MPG/gas remaining indicator ROSE by 10MPG.

Ethanol is a waste.

[unfocused1]

Originally Posted by paul21

The point of E85 is not really to create a dependence on corn, but rather something that can be generated from a short biological process. Corn is a pretty poor ethanol source compared to sugarcane (Brazil), but cheaper bio-engineered ethanol might not be that far away.

Hydrogen, on the other hand, is a terrible idea. It can't be efficiently generated through electrolysis, and it's only used as energy storage anyway. High quality lithium or other batteries can do similar things efficiently. Incremental improvements in batteries are making EV's more viable, and it won't be long before quick charging stations start popping up killing the range argument.

It all boils down to how we get our energy. We pump it from the ground, mine it, or use the sun in some way through nature.

That makes sense and thx for the info re: hydrogen, but I agree with others that using food as mechanical fuel is a myopic mistake.

[cessna1]

Originally Posted by unfocused1

Another reason to use ethanol-free:

Fiberglass gas tanks will erode over time due to the presence of ethanol.



So far, driving 20 miles (city), the MPG/gas remaining indicator ROSE by 10MPG.

Ethanol is a waste.

Not if the correct resin is used. Several small experimental aircraft use fiberglass fuel tanks. The early one have problems with ethanol but when they figured out that better resins can be used, the problems go away.

[cobie56]

Originally Posted by cessna1

Darkangelism is right that the corn for ethanol is not people food but livestock feed. A third of every bushel that goes to the ethanol plant comes back out to feed livestock. It is high protein so higher inclusion rates are possible than straight corn. Also, cobie is wrong about all the corn being irrigated---actually very small percent is irrigated---I'm totally dependent on rain for my crops. Been doing my best to notill the crops to save soil and build organic matter that holds moisture better for these dry times. And no, I don't use more chemicals but try to be smart with the ones I do use.

i understand u don't irrigate ur crop however, a great % of farmers do so.

[cessna1]

cobie, you should read through this. It has a bunch of info and on the water issue, only 15% of the US corn crop is irrigated and actual gallons of water used is less than in 1980. I think I read where in Minnesota, golf courses use more water than ethanol plants also. Click on the ethanol, rumor vs. reality link and open the pdf.
http://www.dogpile.com/search/web?fc...+irrigated&ql=

[cobie56]

Originally Posted by cessna1

cobie, you should read through this. It has a bunch of info and on the water issue, only 15% of the US corn crop is irrigated and actual gallons of water used is less than in 1980. I think I read where in Minnesota, golf courses use more water than ethanol plants also. Click on the ethanol, rumor vs. reality link and open the pdf.
http://www.dogpile.com/search/web?fc...+irrigated&ql=

Thnx point taken. However the real n bigger issue still exists. It takes more fossil fuel to produce and ship to market the ethanol than it saves by diluting gasoline with it. Unless ethanol can be piped and not trucked and unless we use a non food crop which requires no irrigation (i kno) or fertilization then ethanol is a total waste of time n money

[RallyFord]

I ran E85 on my Evo for more boost and additional timing. E85 is jesus juice. Stuff is amazing for performance on turbo cars.