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Old 07-06-2012, 10:23 AM   #211
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Old 07-06-2012, 11:56 AM   #212
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Ultra's above reported 5.0% NOACK Volatility is incorrect. It's not possible for a 100% group III formulation to have a NOACK lower than 10%. Any formulation containing group III base stocks will naturally have a high NOACK. This is why Mobil 1 refuses to include this specification on any product information sheet. They do not want the "educated" public to know they are using refined petroleum yet calling it "Fully synthetic".

Pennzoil Ultra's NOACK for their 5W-20 grade is actually 12.6%, and is verified by their very own .pdf product sheet.

Ultra .pdf - scroll down

Pennzoil Platinum's NOACK for thier 5W-20 grade is higher @ 13.2%. They were sneaky hiding this .pdf sheet. It was not listed on their website, I had to internet ninja the link.

Platinum .pdf - scroll down

Amsoil Signature Series 5W-20 is the king of low NOACK @ 5.7%

ALM 5W-20 product info - scroll down

Even OE 5W-20 that is 100% group III has a better NOACK than Ultra @ 10%. If someone is looking for very affordable oil for their focus, wants to achieve the 10,000 mile OLM rating, and wants to sleep easy at night. OE offers the BEST bang for the buck.

OEM 5W-20 product info - scroll down

You are correct about higher NOACK causing more deposits in a direct injected engine. That's why I choose to use the lowest NOACK percentage available in Amsoil ALM 5W-20 Signature Series. I will also be installing an oil separator to get what little does evaporate in the crankcase and sucked into the PCV system. Since Signature Series has half the NOACK %, it will also have 50% less chance for potential deposits.

For the record, Motorcraft 5W-20 synthetic blend has a very high NOACK in the 13-15% range. To be API SN certified, no lubricant can exceed 15% NOACK Volatility.
That TDS for Ultra is outdated. Here's the new one.

Looks like they reformulated Ultra to meet SN/GF-5. Are they lying about the NOACK?
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:10 PM   #213
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I'm starting to think the moral of all the jibberish going on in this post is...

It doesn't matter!

$0.50/quart fleet farm 5w-20 is what i'm using in my car. If your so desperate to have your engine last for 300,000 miles, go buy a honda.
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:13 PM   #214
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And then there's 'that guy'.
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:35 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by skiboarder119 View Post
I'm starting to think the moral of all the jibberish going on in this post is...

It doesn't matter!

$0.50/quart fleet farm 5w-20 is what i'm using in my car. If your so desperate to have your engine last for 300,000 miles, go buy a honda.
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Originally Posted by dyn085 View Post
And then there's 'that guy'.
Yeah, that's some helpful input skiboarder. Were not 'just' trying to make our engines last, we are also trying to maximize & maintain their performance during it's life. You know, better MPGs, more horsepower. Granted it's not huge gains but it is worth it for some of us to pay more if there is ACTUAL gains from the premium products....which is why people are discussing the details. I'm not going to pay $20 more per oil change just because somebody says something's a better product. I want specifics and data.

I'm sorry this all bores you but.... My new years resolution was to not insult people online even when they deserve it. So I'll just stop now.
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:39 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnleashedBeast View Post
Ultra's above reported 5.0% NOACK Volatility is incorrect. It's not possible for a 100% group III formulation to have a NOACK lower than 10%. Any formulation containing group III base stocks will naturally have a high NOACK. This is why Mobil 1 refuses to include this specification on any product information sheet. They do not want the "educated" public to know they are using refined petroleum yet calling it "Fully synthetic".

Pennzoil Ultra's NOACK for their 5W-20 grade is actually 12.6%, and is verified by their very own .pdf product sheet.

Ultra .pdf - scroll down

Pennzoil Platinum's NOACK for thier 5W-20 grade is higher @ 13.2%. They were sneaky hiding this .pdf sheet. It was not listed on their website, I had to internet ninja the link.

Platinum .pdf - scroll down

Amsoil Signature Series 5W-20 is the king of low NOACK @ 5.7%

ALM 5W-20 product info - scroll down

Even OE 5W-20 that is 100% group III has a better NOACK than Ultra @ 10%. If someone is looking for very affordable oil for their focus, wants to achieve the 10,000 mile OLM rating, and wants to sleep easy at night. OE offers the BEST bang for the buck.

OEM 5W-20 product info - scroll down

You are correct about higher NOACK causing more deposits in a direct injected engine. That's why I choose to use the lowest NOACK percentage available in Amsoil ALM 5W-20 Signature Series. I will also be installing an oil separator to get what little does evaporate in the crankcase and sucked into the PCV system. Since Signature Series has half the NOACK %, it will also have 50% less chance for potential deposits.

For the record, Motorcraft 5W-20 synthetic blend has a very high NOACK in the 13-15% range. To be API SN certified, no lubricant can exceed 15% NOACK Volatility.
Who knows the really correct Ultra value, but the PDS you reference is for Ultra in the SM formulation. When SN was introduced, I believe Ultra began to include a fair portion of Gas-to-Liquid-derived base stocks, which is not, if I understand correctly, a Base III product.

It would be pretty hard to find SM Ultra anymore, so that PDS is truly obsolete.
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:44 PM   #217
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Getting the thread back on track.

I totally ignore the computer (and reset it the minute it comes on). I changed the oil at 500 miles, 3500 miles, and then 5000-6000 mile intervals after that. I also don't believe the 10,000 mile intervals. I see shavings and my oil is dirty, means it needed a change.

As a side note. My buddy at ford says that it calculates the oil change interval on Rotations of the crank shaft. I suppose that can be interpreted as outputing different intervals depending on how the car is driven.
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:30 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by skiboarder119 View Post
Getting the thread back on track.

I totally ignore the computer (and reset it the minute it comes on). I changed the oil at 500 miles, 3500 miles, and then 5000-6000 mile intervals after that. I also don't believe the 10,000 mile intervals. I see shavings and my oil is dirty, means it needed a change.

As a side note. My buddy at ford says that it calculates the oil change interval on Rotations of the crank shaft. I suppose that can be interpreted as outputing different intervals depending on how the car is driven.
Crankshaft revolutions would be a logical input, but there also has to be at least one more variable(s) related to oil or water temperature or trip length to compensate for short trip or cold weather use.

Fwiw, I think your oil change strategy makes sense, though physical appearance of oil may not be a good indicator of its health.
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:33 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by skiboarder119 View Post
I'm starting to think the moral of all the jibberish going on in this post is...

It doesn't matter!

$0.50/quart fleet farm 5w-20 is what i'm using in my car. If your so desperate to have your engine last for 300,000 miles, go buy a honda.
There is a difference between sufficient and no compromise. I'm a no compromise kinda guy.

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And then there's 'that guy'.
Made me LOL, there is one everywhere...on every forum.

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Originally Posted by dan50 View Post
Who knows the really correct Ultra value, but the PDS you reference is for Ultra in the SM formulation. When SN was introduced, I believe Ultra began to include a fair portion of Gas-to-Liquid-derived base stocks, which is not, if I understand correctly, a Base III product.

It would be pretty hard to find SM Ultra anymore, so that PDS is truly obsolete.
If it's obsolete, why is it the direct link from the Ultra product page? I've never seen any legit group III+ product have a lower NOACK than 10%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by treoless View Post
That TDS for Ultra is outdated. Here's the new one.

Looks like they reformulated Ultra to meet SN/GF-5. Are they lying about the NOACK?
Something isn't adding up. Pennzoil themselves openly admitted they were using group III base stocks in a BITOG Q&A session, which I might add has been conveniently removed from the BITOG site in the last few months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skiboarder119 View Post
I see shavings and my oil is dirty, means it needed a change.
I have a bypass system installed on my car that filters 98.7% efficient at 1 micron. You will have to remind me what metal shavings in an engine's lubricant looks like.
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:46 PM   #220
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There is a difference between sufficient and no compromise. I'm a no compromise kinda guy.



Made me LOL, there is one everywhere...on every forum.



If it's obsolete, why is it the direct link from the Ultra product page? I've never seen any legit group III+ product have a lower NOACK than 10%.



Something isn't adding up. Pennzoil themselves openly admitted they were using group III base stocks in a BITOG Q&A session, which I might add has been conveniently removed from the BITOG site in the last few months.



I have a bypass system installed on my car that filters 98.7% efficient at 1 micron. You will have to remind me what metal shavings in an engine's lubricant looks like.
Re the Ultra page, it was linked to the SN PDS, then to nothing, now they throw in the SM version? Pennzoil has about the worst website management for its products I've seen, so I wouldn't read too much into this PDS appearing. SN was reformulated and seems to contain less Group III than its SM counterpart. Does that support the low Noack? Who knows?
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