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Old 11-15-2003, 01:56 AM   #51
thefiatek
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ok. I'll go with you on the oil squirter (still haven't seen a piston without the holes under the oil ring, EVER) Mineral oil IS 10W, that was my point. 10w oils break down excessively fast IN ANY ENGINE. I also agree on changing your oil regularly, in the case that you do, you will rarley see a problem with a wieght of 30 or less. FYI on 30w: 90% of all new car dealers have NOTHING BUT 30W oil in their shop. This is a fact. It is cost effective, and the oil companies that deliver by the barrel only offer 10W30 and 30W. I have worked for Porshe, BMW, Fiat, and Volkswagen (dealerships). we never followed the reccomendation, we just put in the oil that was delivered, but then again, what do I know. I'm just a rookie on the ford front. i hope to be enlightened someday on how to make a car run for more than 100k someday, Ford obviously hasn't figured it out. I only quoted factory specs. for some engines that consistently run for more than 150k miles. These are street engines or GTS (Street). Nothing to do with quarter mile engines (the only run for a maximum of 120 seconds) Try boiling 5W30, 10W30 (mineral oil combined with motor oil) and SAE 30 for 24 hours. You will find that the 10W loses viscosity far quicker than the Sae 30 and oddly enough even the 5W30. This is because IT IS Mineral Oil. It is the same weight as the PETROLEUM based mineral oil that is used in hydraulic oil. Not good above 170 degrees. Simple fact. Run some in something air cooled for a while and you'll see what I mean.
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Old 11-15-2003, 02:16 AM   #52
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Where have I been?

In all the confusion in talking about SPLASH lubrcation, I finally realised that I wasn't on the lawnmower repair page! I better go check the "splash pump" on my car or I could really be in trouble if it get's cold out and I have more than a 2W oil in it! Where's the wrench? I'll drain it before anything happens!!!!!
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Old 11-15-2003, 02:19 AM   #53
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Mineral oil IS 10W, that was my point. 10w oils break down excessively fast IN ANY ENGINE



there is a difference between 10W mineral oil and 10W engine oil... neither of which is recommended for a car engine.


I'm just a rookie on the ford front. i hope to be enlightened someday on how to make a car run for more than 100k someday, Ford obviously hasn't figured it out.


My 1985 ford ranger has 275,000 miles on it and running strong. I rarely see a car, any car, go less than 100,000 miles... with exception of the chevy 2.8


This is because IT IS Mineral Oil. It is the same weight as the PETROLEUM based mineral oil that is used in hydraulic oil. Not good above 170 degrees. Simple fact. Run some in something air cooled for a while and you'll see what I mean



But automotive, internal combustion engine 10W oil has a different composition and additives that make it more sutible for internal combustion engines than hydrolics. My father has been a service writer for Ford for a few years, after selling them for lots of years. I know for a fact that Ford uses the recommeneded oil in the car they are serviceing. It is sad to hear that the oh so perfect european dealers don't. I am not slaming you or your knowlage. You obviously know alot and I respect you for that. I just don't agree with everything your saying.
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Old 11-15-2003, 02:59 AM   #54
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Ain't forums great! Thanks vance and thefiatek for letting us in on your conversation. I'm learing a lot.

BTW, I'm serious.

Ahh, now don't go getting all mushy on me partner.
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Old 11-15-2003, 03:39 AM   #55
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you could use a good quality oil or synthetic and change your filter every thousand miles or so and have the same effect as AMSOIL. Weigh the cost difference.



Really, every thousand miles? So if you also go by your Amsoil standards I would never have to change the oil? That isn't what Amsoil says. Amsoil recommends oil changes based on oil analysis. I also think that there is a recommended interval, but I don't have that in front of me right now.
By the time you change your oil, and replace the contents of the filter along with any runout, you have probably removed close to a quart. So, by the time you buy the five filters and five quarts of oil for a 5000 mile interval, you have spent $45. I think the Amsoil recommendation is 20,000 miles. Amsoil also likes to see you run that pricey bypass filter for those long intervals. Thats 5 x 45 which is $225. Not counting all the time wasted on your back in the driveway.
Nobody even touched on the fact that if you operate the engine for a suitable length of time, you will have reached a point that the heat in the oil burns off the water and fuel that can accumulate in the crankcase. This is important because the water combines with sulfur to form sulfuric acid and the fuel dilutes the oil. So, if you don't have a commute of around a half hour or so, take your car out once a week or so to burn off the contaminants.
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Old 11-15-2003, 08:44 PM   #56
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10W is something I just don't reccomend using, mainly because of the number of engines I've torn down and seen the effects on. Amsoil seems pricey to me for what you get. The guy that tried to sell AMSOIL to me gave me the spiel about changing the oil after something like 500,000 miles, and I knew that was bogus so never looked any further into it. I would, however like to tear down one of the Focus engines to measure the actual tolerances to see if the oil recomendation is justified. The 5w20 seems to be a little tough to locate sometimes, and there's that fear of premature breakdown. One thing that surprised me when I bought my ZTS was that the dealer did not require a "break in" oil change after 1500 miles. They also told me the oil change intervals were 5000 miles. I'm thinking this has to do with the quality of the filter and not neccesarily the quality of the oil.
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Old 11-15-2003, 09:55 PM   #57
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Why is everyone suddenly anti-10w-anything, I always grew up using 10w oil, why is it such a bad thing, ive never heard all this stuff anywhere before, seems kinda bogus
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Old 11-15-2003, 10:53 PM   #58
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10W oil is not for running in a modern engine. It is way to thin and doesn't protect at the higher heat ranges. I am older than most here, and don't ever remember a time when 10W oil was recomended.

Thefiatec, this is how far behind the times you are. It has been YEARS since a break in oil has been used. The focus comes straight from the factory with semi-synthetic oil in it. Machining tolerances are so close now days, every thing seats almost imediatly. Personally, I have never used a "break in oil" in any of my rebuilds, just used 10W-40 or 10W-30, and changed it after 1000 miles. I still can't for the life of me understand why you think that there would be a break down of 5W-20 oil. It makes no sense. Quality of oil has done nothing but improve as time goes on.
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Old 11-16-2003, 08:43 PM   #59
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Talking

Hi, If you want to talk OIL, go to:


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/
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Old 11-16-2003, 09:31 PM   #60
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maybe I'm back in the dark ages, but I don't believe for a second that they stopped using babbited material on bearings anytime over the last ten years. This material is used because it is far softer than the steel of the crankshaft and wears to fit the journals and provide proper oiling. This takes about 1500 miles. As I said "it is probably due to the quality of the oil filter". If these tolerances were so tight we wouldn't need oil at all! I also don't think that Ford has all of the sudden become a leading producer of highest quality engines (I've rebuilt to many of them to think that), the rating on the Focus engines is unfortunatley sad compared to the Japanese and European engines. (no, your Euro body kit really doesn't do anything for performance or technical knowledge of performance engines, SORRY) I still stand behind not using 10w on a gasoline 4 cylinder, and even question the use of a 20w oil in them. I think I'll go back to the seventies now.
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