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Old 03-26-2013, 11:38 AM   #251
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I wish there were a way to separate the banks for a true dual set up instead of a 4>1>2. Be nice to have 4>2>2.
4>2>2 sounds like an incredibly slow Focus not to be a pompus ass but any tru dual makes less horsepower then an x-pipe exhaust and a 4 cylinder would never benefit in the slightest from a setup like that even with an x-pipe.

better off with 3" headerback and a 3" single in 3" dual out if you want the best horsepower from a dual setup.
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:44 AM   #252
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what if I don't have emissions testing? Also, did you have to have an o2 sensor extension? I guess what I'm asking is, If I start to install the header with just the header, gasket and flex pipe. Will I be able to install it?
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:48 AM   #253
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4>2>2 sounds like an incredibly slow Focus not to be a pompus ass but any tru dual makes less horsepower then an x-pipe exhaust and a 4 cylinder would never benefit in the slightest from a setup like that even with an x-pipe.

better off with 3" headerback and a 3" single in 3" dual out if you want the best horsepower from a dual setup.
Well I kind of disagree based on ideas such as this:
From a more technical standpoint, the primary job of the header is to aid in the extraction of the exhaust gases with the highest amount of velocity and lowest amount of backpressure possible. A good header design should reduce backpressure without sacrificing exhaust gas speed velocity.

The easiest way to decrease exhaust backpressure is to increase piping diameter. However, increasing the pipe diameter will decrease exhaust gas speed (velocity). Confused yet? Think of a water hose. Say you have a 1/2-inch water hose and you turn the faucet all the way up. The water velocity will be rather fast due to the small-diameter hose. If you remove the 1/2-inch hose and install one that is two inches in diameter and then turn the water back on full blast it will probably trickle out of the hose due to the reduced backpressure but the water volume is likely to be higher because of the larger diameter hose.

Now let's take it one step further. Gas speed (velocity) is dependent upon piping diameter and exhaust gas temperature. The hotter the exhaust gas gets the faster it travels. If the gas velocity gets too high the header system may become too restrictive, hurting top-end power. On the flip side, a too slow gas velocity will result in a very peaky powerband, hurting low-end torque. If the piping diameter is increased to reduce backpressure, the larger piping allows the exhaust gas expand and cool, resulting from the slowing down of exhaust gases (decreased velocity).

There are two types of 4-cylinder headers common in the aftermarket, a 4-2-1 design, also know as a Tri-Y header, and a 4-1 design. A 4-2-1 header joins two of the primary pipes into a secondary piping and then joins the two secondaries together at the collector. For a 4-cylinder engine with a firing order of 1-3-4-2 it is crucial to join the No. 1 and No. 4 cylinders and No. 2 and No. 3 cylinders together. The reason is since most 4-cylinder engines have a 180-degree crankshaft the exhaust pulse from the No. 1 cylinder helps to increase the exhaust flow of the No. 4 cylinder and vice versa (scavenging effect). The same goes for the No. 2 and No. 3 cylinders. For a well-designed header to work effectively it should merge the corresponding cylinders and have equal-length primaries.

And yes you would want some sort of balance tube, whether it be an "x" or "H" design, down stream.

And I believe a 3" is too large and would reduce the back pressure too much, thus reducing velocity of the exhaust gases and reducing scavenging effects. I would go no larger than a single 2.5" or dual 2.25". But these are my opinions.
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Old 03-26-2013, 12:03 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by dbsimms63 View Post
Well I kind of disagree based on ideas such as this:
From a more technical standpoint, the primary job of the header is to aid in the extraction of the exhaust gases with the highest amount of velocity and lowest amount of backpressure possible. A good header design should reduce backpressure without sacrificing exhaust gas speed velocity.

The easiest way to decrease exhaust backpressure is to increase piping diameter. However, increasing the pipe diameter will decrease exhaust gas speed (velocity). Confused yet? Think of a water hose. Say you have a 1/2-inch water hose and you turn the faucet all the way up. The water velocity will be rather fast due to the small-diameter hose. If you remove the 1/2-inch hose and install one that is two inches in diameter and then turn the water back on full blast it will probably trickle out of the hose due to the reduced backpressure but the water volume is likely to be higher because of the larger diameter hose.

Now let's take it one step further. Gas speed (velocity) is dependent upon piping diameter and exhaust gas temperature. The hotter the exhaust gas gets the faster it travels. If the gas velocity gets too high the header system may become too restrictive, hurting top-end power. On the flip side, a too slow gas velocity will result in a very peaky powerband, hurting low-end torque. If the piping diameter is increased to reduce backpressure, the larger piping allows the exhaust gas expand and cool, resulting from the slowing down of exhaust gases (decreased velocity).

There are two types of 4-cylinder headers common in the aftermarket, a 4-2-1 design, also know as a Tri-Y header, and a 4-1 design. A 4-2-1 header joins two of the primary pipes into a secondary piping and then joins the two secondaries together at the collector. For a 4-cylinder engine with a firing order of 1-3-4-2 it is crucial to join the No. 1 and No. 4 cylinders and No. 2 and No. 3 cylinders together. The reason is since most 4-cylinder engines have a 180-degree crankshaft the exhaust pulse from the No. 1 cylinder helps to increase the exhaust flow of the No. 4 cylinder and vice versa (scavenging effect). The same goes for the No. 2 and No. 3 cylinders. For a well-designed header to work effectively it should merge the corresponding cylinders and have equal-length primaries.

And yes you would want some sort of balance tube, whether it be an "x" or "H" design, down stream.

And I believe a 3" is too large and would reduce the back pressure too much, thus reducing velocity of the exhaust gases and reducing scavenging effects. I would go no larger than a single 2.5" or dual 2.25". But these are my opinions.
Without a Balance tube you have major loss so im glad you added that to your arguement. But again you just said that velocity goes down on a 3" well on a 5" which is exactly what you are doing by making two pipes from the header you are killing the car. By having 2 cylinders in a 2.5" instead of 4 in a 3" you really have a 5" exhaust when you split the banks. Hope this helps clarify what I was saying.

3" exhaust has been proven on duratecs to be the best before power loss. I think the whp/wtq numbers on my car speak for itself. Not to mention if down the road we get tuning and I turbo this car the 3" exhaust will not need to be upgraded like a 2.5" would.

I understand you are speaking on experience with other vehicles but no car is alike as you well know. I have been with the focus since 2001 and have had a 03 svt 05 2.3 08 focus and a 2012 now I know everything there is to know about getting the most out of the car before major mods like turbo and nitrous.

First dyno on 2.5" exhaust only made 175whp and 151 wtq since then my numbers increased just by going to 3"
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Old 03-26-2013, 12:07 PM   #255
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Without a Balance tube you have major loss so im glad you added that to your arguement. But again you just said that velocity goes down on a 3" well on a 5" which is exactly what you are doing by making two pipes from the header you are killing the car. By having 2 cylinders in a 2.5" instead of 4 in a 3" you really have a 5" exhaust when you split the banks. Hope this helps clarify what I was saying.

3" exhaust has been proven on duratecs to be the best before power loss. I think the whp/wtq numbers on my car speak for itself. Not to mention if down the road we get tuning and I turbo this car the 3" exhaust will not need to be upgraded like a 2.5" would.
No I said I would use the 2.5" tubing if it were a single exhaust, not a dual. And if I made a dual, maybe I would just run 2" pipe instead of 2.25", would flow it first to see how much of a back pressure drop there was between the two set ups. Oh and good luck putting a turbo on the 2.0L Ti-VCT GDI I-4 , it's not the same animal as the ST.
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Old 03-26-2013, 12:12 PM   #256
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No I said I would use the 2.5" tubing if it were a single exhaust, not a dual. And if I made a dual, maybe I would just run 2" pipe instead of 2.25", would flow it first to see how much of a back pressure drop there was between the two set ups.
The only reason why I am saying any of this is I know how much powerloss comes from setups like that again even with 2" you are still 4" tru size and atleast Double the price of a 3" setup that is proven to work. Or even a 2.5" that has been proven to be the perfect bolt on setup for duratecs since 04.

Either way man it is your vehicle I wont try to tell you what to do with it. If anything I am curious to see what you do.

Oh and I know the engine is not the same but I can put 5-8 PSI even on that 12:1 compression.
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:27 PM   #257
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Oh and I know the engine is not the same but I can put 5-8 PSI even on that 12:1 compression.

I think you are absolutely correct on this. So are you going to be the first to do it.
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:48 PM   #258
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Oh and I know the engine is not the same but I can put 5-8 PSI even on that 12:1 compression.

I think you are absolutely correct on this. So are you going to be the first to do it.
When proper tuning is out for this car I will do my best to be. I would like to add some miles to the car before that though.

Also I have pictures of the flexpipe and the o2 spacer.





White Wire Oxygen sensor is the Primary Sensor (sensor 1). The Spaced one is the catalytic converter sensor (sensor 2)
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:11 PM   #259
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Cool, Now that I see a picture it makes perfect sense on the explaination, before about the orientation of the two sensors,thanks.
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:46 PM   #260
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Cool, Now that I see a picture it makes perfect sense on the explaination, before about the orientation of the two sensors,thanks.
Yeah and I apologize to everyone on that flexpipe I honestly tried 3 or 4 different ways to put those mounts until I found that set up so it Looks UGLY in the picture. Thank god I cant see that while it is on the car.
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