SVT Not Starting - Focus Fanatics
Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forums
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace



Go Back   Focus Fanatics > Ford Focus Tech Discussions > General Technical Chat

General Technical Chat This section is for technical discussions relating to general maintenance, electrical issues, engine trouble, and recalls.

Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
FocusFest Ford Focus Tire & Wheels FocusFanatics Merchandise

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-02-2012, 12:21 PM   #1
Dean2
Focus Enthusiast
 
Dean2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Fan#: 78118
Location: Chicago, IL
What I Drive: Yellow '03 EAP

Posts: 57
FF Reputation: 1 Dean2 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
SVT Not Starting

Hi all. I've got a no start issue that I'd like some help with.

The car's been running okay. It's always had the annoying near death dropping idle when pulling up to stop signs. Otherwise, all seemed to be well. It has 162k miles. Saturday afternoon, it wouldn't start. It seems like it wants to start if I hold the accelerator all the way down, but never actually does.

I have spark. I hooked up my timing light and it flashed during cranking. Everything from the coil to the plugs was replaced last fall. Having spark means I have a good crank position sensor, too, right?

I have not done a compression test yet. Will I get useable readings from a cold engine? And for future reference... I've always read that you shouldn't pull spark plugs from a hot aluminum head. How do you square that with needing to do a compression test on a fully warmed up engine?

I can hear the fuel pump running via the filler neck. I replaced the fuel filter (and let it crank for quite a while). The pressure regulator diaphragm is intact. If I'm not mistaken, I cannot check the fuel pressure. I did smell fuel in the engine bay after cranking.

I tried to get it to fire with starting fluid, but no go there. I removed the MAF sensor to gain access to the intake. I cleaned the sensor with contact cleaner while it was out. Would the lack of readings from the MAF cause it to not start with the fluid? Seems like it would burn regardless. Does it sound like I should go back to spark and/or compression?

There are no codes and no impending codes.

Any ideas on where to go next with the troubleshooting?

Thanks in advance!


Dean2 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-02-2012, 12:36 PM   #2
elsolo
Focus Fanatic
 
elsolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Fan#: 96835
Location: Long Beach, CA
What I Drive: 2003 dark shadow grey metallic ZX3

Posts: 1,924
FF Reputation: 17 elsolo Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (1)
What you describe could be a stuck injector dumping fuel, flooding the engine, and not letting the other injectors see fuel pressure.

It could be any number of other things too.
elsolo is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 12:43 PM   #3
Grinder
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Fan#: 85627
Location: Minneapolis, MN
What I Drive: 2003 CD silver SVT

Posts: 497
FF Reputation: 10 Grinder Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post
Hi all. I've got a no start issue that I'd like some help with.

The car's been running okay. It's always had the annoying near death dropping idle when pulling up to stop signs. Otherwise, all seemed to be well. It has 162k miles. Saturday afternoon, it wouldn't start. It seems like it wants to start if I hold the accelerator all the way down, but never actually does.

I have spark. I hooked up my timing light and it flashed during cranking. Everything from the coil to the plugs was replaced last fall. Having spark means I have a good crank position sensor, too, right?

I have not done a compression test yet. Will I get useable readings from a cold engine? And for future reference... I've always read that you shouldn't pull spark plugs from a hot aluminum head. How do you square that with needing to do a compression test on a fully warmed up engine?

I can hear the fuel pump running via the filler neck. I replaced the fuel filter (and let it crank for quite a while). The pressure regulator diaphragm is intact. If I'm not mistaken, I cannot check the fuel pressure. I did smell fuel in the engine bay after cranking.

I tried to get it to fire with starting fluid, but no go there. I removed the MAF sensor to gain access to the intake. I cleaned the sensor with contact cleaner while it was out. Would the lack of readings from the MAF cause it to not start with the fluid? Seems like it would burn regardless. Does it sound like I should go back to spark and/or compression?

There are no codes and no impending codes.

Any ideas on where to go next with the troubleshooting?


Thanks in advance!
Well, good job describing your findings, you've covered a lot of the basics already.

My thoughts are this: If you have spark - the CKP signal is there. Doesn't necessarily mean it's correct, but it's there. When you crank the engine under WOT, the PCM enters de-flood mode in which it will provide spark but no fuel injector pulse. So if this is when it wants to start I'd be concerned with a possible leaking injector, low PCM power input (tends to hold injectors open way too long and foul plugs) or poor quality fuel.

If it wants to start under throttle but not quite 100% wide-open, could just be an issue with the IAC. If the IAC sticks shut, it usually causes an initial start/stall. If this continues for a period of time it will foul the plugs and a crank/no start will result. As they age, they can give you dashpot dips as you also described....

What bothers me is that you have spark but it wont start on ether. This tells me your plugs are fouled or you didn't use enough ether. Again, a symptom of a flooded motor.

I'm not sure what diaphram you checked. The SVT is returnless - there is no regulator. Just a contained pulse dampner (sorta resembles a regulator but is part of the fuel rail and not take-apartable) and a fuel pressure sensor on the rail.

How do you know if you have codes? Do you have a scanner? Do you have datalogging capability?

If you don't have the ability to datalog, the next easiest thing to do would be to remove the plugs. Inspect them for damage and fouling. Dry/clean them and crank the engine under WOT with the plugs out. Clean out the cylinders, re-install the plugs, give it a nice solid 3 second hit of ether though the throttle body (while holding it open by hand) and give it another go.
Grinder is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 02:23 PM   #4
Dean2
Focus Enthusiast
 
Dean2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Fan#: 78118
Location: Chicago, IL
What I Drive: Yellow '03 EAP

Posts: 57
FF Reputation: 1 Dean2 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Thanks for the replies.

By WOT, I meant full on, fuel off WOT. I sometimes have to do that to crank it when it's really cold out to prevent it from flooding.

I dug through a bunch of posts over the weekend. I either saw a Zetec thread on checking the regulator or should have said pressure sensor. Apparently, with one of those, a torn diaphragm will let fuel into the vacuum system. Anyway, not applicable here!

The leaking injector idea sounds perfectly logical to me, though I am NOT familiar with injectors/injection. But, it looks like I can check for this by pulling the fuel rail with injectors, pressurizing the system (key to run), and watching for leaks. Any tricks/tips to removing the fuel rail? Can this leak be from the o-rings or is it necessarily a leak due to a faulty injector? Sorry, I'm not sure how everything goes together.

I have a cheapo code reader, but no datalogger. (That tune/datalogger I want keeps looking better and better!)

I should have time to crack it open tonight (and inspect the plugs, too). If so, I'll report back then.

Thanks!
Dean2 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 02:25 PM   #5
Dean2
Focus Enthusiast
 
Dean2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Fan#: 78118
Location: Chicago, IL
What I Drive: Yellow '03 EAP

Posts: 57
FF Reputation: 1 Dean2 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Oh, and if an injector is leaking, is it definitely broken, or could it just be dirty/stuck?
Dean2 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 06:44 PM   #6
goinloco1
Late for Dinner
 
goinloco1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Fan#: 8529
Location: Aberdeen, SD
What I Drive: 13 stang

Posts: 15,189
FF Reputation: 90 goinloco1 Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (2)
if your smelling fuel after cranking its the pressure regulator.
passenger end of the fuel rail. pull vacuum hose off the regulator and turn ignition on. Any fuel coming out of the regulator vacuum connection, its shot.
When the diaphram goes it dumps raw fuel into the intake through the vacuum hose.
If you find this, do not try to start or you may blow the intake due to the fuel puddled in the bottom.
goinloco1 is online now  
    Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2012, 07:45 AM   #7
Dean2
Focus Enthusiast
 
Dean2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Fan#: 78118
Location: Chicago, IL
What I Drive: Yellow '03 EAP

Posts: 57
FF Reputation: 1 Dean2 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
I got the injectors out. There was no visible fuel leaking, but one of them whistles just after the pump cycles on. I'm assuming that instead of flooding, I'm just not getting any pressure due to that leak.
Dean2 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2012, 08:56 AM   #8
Dean2
Focus Enthusiast
 
Dean2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Fan#: 78118
Location: Chicago, IL
What I Drive: Yellow '03 EAP

Posts: 57
FF Reputation: 1 Dean2 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Hmm, I guess a leak would screw up the atomization of the fuel and it does actually flood. All four are "firing".
Dean2 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2012, 10:45 AM   #9
Dean2
Focus Enthusiast
 
Dean2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Fan#: 78118
Location: Chicago, IL
What I Drive: Yellow '03 EAP

Posts: 57
FF Reputation: 1 Dean2 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Got it. O-rings! I love a simple, cheap solution.

I went back through the manual and realized that the top of the injector is also a press fit with an o-ring. I figured that that was as likely as anything else to be the culprit. I bought a variety pack of rings and found ONE that fit. So, I replaced it on the noisy injector. The first start took a while and required full throttle. (That may have been due to my leaving a vacuum hose unhooked.) After warming up, it restarted fine. Hopefully, it will do so again this afternoon.

I'll get a proper set of o-rings and replace them all this week.

Thanks much for all of the help. I wouldn't have figured this one out on my own.
Dean2 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2012, 12:22 PM   #10
Grinder
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Fan#: 85627
Location: Minneapolis, MN
What I Drive: 2003 CD silver SVT

Posts: 497
FF Reputation: 10 Grinder Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
sorry for the late reply but looks like you've got it figured out. What you did is indeed the most effective way of identifying a leaking injector.

I'm not really confident that your findings jive with your symptom. If the upper o-ring isn't sealing, there should be an external leak. I may be misunderstood though. If it works it works. G/L post again if you still have issues.
Grinder is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks & Social Networks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:19 AM.


Copyright 2002-2014 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : Terms of Use : Privacy Policy : Advertise Information : Site Map

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Acura TLX. You can find all Ford Focus related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area.