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DURATEC Ti-VCT Performance (2012-Current) The place to chat about any Duratec 2.0L Ti-VCT engine performance, tuning and exhaust related upgrades.

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Old 04-06-2014, 03:20 AM   #451
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Originally Posted by Eminaga View Post
Not sure why you would think it would not work. It would work and if tuned correctly it would be a beast for what it is I guarantee it.
WOAHHH i never said it wouldnt work, I said I wish someone in this thread rn would go out and turbo there car say "HEY MAN ITS HELLA FAST" Or say damn its broke haha. I like seeing progress, I'm a hypocrite bc I wont go out and do it...

If we can put a man on the moon, you best believe you can turbo a slowcus.

EDIT: I mean one of "us" not COBB or some big brand haha I seen those already :p
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Old 04-06-2014, 04:51 AM   #452
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I would just don't have funds. A friend use to rebuild turbos but has moved on otherwise it would already be done. Oh we'll some day. ;)
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Old 04-07-2014, 10:34 AM   #453
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Someone mentioned Getrag claimed the trans can only handle 200bhp?
It is the torque not the horsepower and it is something like 175-185 ft-lbs is the rated limit.
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Old 05-18-2014, 01:25 PM   #454
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I personally look at it this way, if you're driving a mk3 Focus, chances are you didn't buy it because your primary goal was power. Chances are that you didn't buy it because it was a cheap beater to make into a toy. Chances are that you bought it because it was a reliable and practical car that was in your price range.

So, barring the limits of the DCT (I've got the MTX ), I've been thinking about the power limits of the engine itself. I've tried to search for the answer but couldn't really find anything that was very clear. Many people here seem to have concluded that we will not know the limits of the engine without someone blowing one up... But what about the people who aren't looking for 400whp, but just more a little more pep than bolt-ons provide?

I'd like to take the opportunity here to cut off the people who are already preparing their "Then trade for the ST!!!" response. For that I refer you to the first part of my post. I bought the SE because I was 22 when I got it, and I could afford both the car payments and insurance... But just barely! It was a practical, reliable car that fit my needs. If you can find me a brand new ST with similar options (leather, ambient mood lights, 201A etc.) for around $18,500, I will concede this point.

For the average mk3 Focus owner who wants a bit more power, I don't think it's rational to dismiss putting a turbo on this engine because "It will never put down big numbers". I also don't like the idea of having to buy an older model "toy" to turbo. I understand the mk1 & mk2 owners have paved the way for the Focus aftermarket community, for which I am grateful, but I simply don't have the resources or storage requirements necessary to make buying an old Focus to sink money into it a reasonable alternative.

So where does that leave an average consumer like myself? I personally would be happy with a turbo kit that only gave me even just 50 more whp. Maybe down the road (like, years and years) I would want to turn my Focus into a track toy, but for now while its my DD I only want a little extra power to make everyday driving even more enjoyable.

Finally on to my point (sorry if I got off topic for a bit there), wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that generally the quality of the internal parts of this engine is similar the quality of the internal parts of older model Duratec engines? Unless Duratec drastically reorganized their production and supply chain management from the mk2 to the mk3 engines, then why should we assume that the quality of the construction and metal internals of the engines has changed drastically? Before you respond that the direct injection Ti-VCT engine is higher compression and different in many regards, let me be clear, I only make this comparison on a general basis. Duratec as a company has been successful over the years mass producing and selling car engines. In business terms, it would not make a lot of sense for Duratec to source cheaper manufacturers for cheaper internals if their current profit margins from their current suppliers was sufficient for the growth they have been experiencing. Furthermore they would in the long run, hurt their sales and report with auto manufactures if their engines were any less reliable or well built than their previous models. In a competitive environment, it wouldn't make much sense for Ford to go with an engine in a new model vehicle that wasn't at least, as well built or of equal(ish) quality of its previous model.

Sorry for the lengthy post I can get carried away sometimes... I could be waaay off base here, but I wanted to add my .02 cents. Lastly, wouldn't developing a smaller, less intense turbo kit help pave the way for the eventual larger and more robust kits that the smaller portion of the market want? (The "my journey to 500whp" people)
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Old 05-18-2014, 03:59 PM   #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintBFair View Post
I'd like to take the opportunity here to cut off the people who are already preparing their "Then trade for the ST!!!" response. For that I refer you to the first part of my post. I bought the SE because I was 22 when I got it, and I could afford both the car payments and insurance... But just barely! It was a practical, reliable car that fit my needs. If you can find me a brand new ST with similar options (leather, ambient mood lights, 201A etc.) for around $18,500, I will concede this point.

So where does that leave an average consumer like myself? I personally would be happy with a turbo kit that only gave me even just 50 more whp. Maybe down the road (like, years and years) I would want to turn my Focus into a track toy, but for now while its my DD I only want a little extra power to make everyday driving even more enjoyable.

Finally on to my point (sorry if I got off topic for a bit there), wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that generally the quality of the internal parts of this engine is similar the quality of the internal parts of older model Duratec engines? Unless Duratec drastically reorganized their production and supply chain management from the mk2 to the mk3 engines, then why should we assume that the quality of the construction and metal internals of the engines has changed drastically? Before you respond that the direct injection Ti-VCT engine is higher compression and different in many regards, let me be clear, I only make this comparison on a general basis. Duratec as a company has been successful over the years mass producing and selling car engines. In business terms, it would not make a lot of sense for Duratec to source cheaper manufacturers for cheaper internals if their current profit margins from their current suppliers was sufficient for the growth they have been experiencing. Furthermore they would in the long run, hurt their sales and report with auto manufactures if their engines were any less reliable or well built than their previous models. In a competitive environment, it wouldn't make much sense for Ford to go with an engine in a new model vehicle that wasn't at least, as well built or of equal(ish) quality of its previous model.

Sorry for the lengthy post I can get carried away sometimes... I could be waaay off base here, but I wanted to add my .02 cents. Lastly, wouldn't developing a smaller, less intense turbo kit help pave the way for the eventual larger and more robust kits that the smaller portion of the market want? (The "my journey to 500whp" people)
There is no such company as "Duratec". Duratec is a family of engines built by Ford Motor Company.

The newer 2.0 L Ti-VCT engines share very little with the older engines in terms of architecture and performance.

The 2012+ 2.0 L GDI engine is built to withstand years of driving on suboptimal 87 octane and E85 at up to 12:1 static compression ratio v.s. the old port injected 10.x:1 duratec 2.0 used in the older Foci.

There has been no market for boosting the base MK3 thanks to the ST being the factory performance option with a larger aftermarket.
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Old 05-18-2014, 04:54 PM   #456
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Sorry, I was under the impression that Duratec was a subsidy of Ford that produced engines for not only Ford, but also Mazda, Aston Martin and Volvo.

Let me emphasis that I was not trying to imply that there were enough similarities between the previous Duratec powered Foci for a direct comparison. That was not the point, which is understandable considering I kinda rambled on there for a bit.

Simply put, I was asking if the general quality of the internal components in other engines in the Duratec family could give us any indication of the general quality of our Duratec engines. I did indicate that I understood that the Ti-VCT engine shares little in common with the previous models, but I see you choose other parts of my inquiry to highlight.

It's interesting to me that a large part of the argument is that the aftermarket for the ST is larger than the aftermarket for the N/A Focus. As a moderator for both forums I am sure you have noticed that there are considerably more threads and activity on the "DURATEC Ti-VCT Performance (2012-Current)" sub-forum than the ST sub-forum. I'm sure globally there is a larger market for ST aftermarket parts... obviously people who were willing to shell out the extra dough at the dealership for a turbo Focus are probably more willing to spend more money on performance.

However, considering at least here on FocusFanatics, there seems to be a larger interest in squeezing some performance out of the Ti-VCT (of which more people purchased on this site, evidenced by forum activity), one would think we could have a serious discussion about it. Not be dismissed in four sentences for getting one material fact wrong.

I got the vehicle I could afford to finance. I did my math and really wanted an ST, but unfortunately it wasn't in the cards for me at the time. Now that I have my first serious career position out of college, I can afford to do some thing to my car. Nothing big but if I saved up for a few months, I could justify a few larger purchases. I can't afford to trade in my car, and even still, I like my car. I really do, its fun to drive and i'm not trying to make a race car. Just a daily driver that is a bit more spirited than stock.

This is exactly why I have had account with this forum for over a year and never posted anything. Everyone is so negative and dismissive. I didn't sign up to be told that "You should have got the ST". Hey, thats an idea! So we don't mislead new focus owners like me, we should rename "DURATEC Ti-VCT Performance (2012-Current)" to "You Should Have Got An ST If You Want Anything Besides a CAI, Exhaust, and Tune (2012-Current)".

I thought I had signed up for a fun and welcoming community of Focus owners to make conjectures and even fantasize a bit about what our vehicles are capable of. Isn't that what being a gear head is all about? There are though here who try, but unfortunately they have been greatly overshadowed by the people who choose to gripe and moan "Trade for an ST then!" or "Have you ever heard of the Search button?!?!?"

Sorry if I seem upset. This is my first activity outside of the New Member sub-forum and I feel disheartened. I understand my first post wasn't extremely clear and rather lengthy and it's completely possible you just skimmed over it. But could you just let us have our fun in hypothesizing what our cars can do as opposed to dismissing us because we didn't buy an ST? It's like all our parents used to say "If you don't have anything nice to say...". I do genuinely appreciate the clarification on Duratec and Ford. I did not understand that. What set me off was that you chose to dismiss the rest of my inquiry and even went so far as to highlight the portion of my post "Trade in for an ST!". I wasn't trying to even challenge people of that opinion, its a fine opinion. I just happen to disagree with it and had tried to covey I was not looking for that.
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Old 05-18-2014, 05:16 PM   #457
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Originally Posted by SaintBFair View Post
If you can find me a brand new ST with similar options (leather, ambient mood lights, 201A etc.) for around $18,500, I will concede this point.
Look at the Mk 1/2 turbo build threads here - the kits are never plug-and-play, there are always problems. Stuff has to get hacked up, suppliers didn't include the right parts, stuff doesn't fit. Then you deal with getting it tuned. Ignition and fueling problems abound (compounded by the Mk3's direct injection), you take it to a dyno or do the tune-by-mail thing - either way it's a process.

Now you've altered your car's reliability by adding a whole buttload of potential failure points - oops, looks like you ran that vacuum line too close to the downpipe, it melted, and your car's down until that's diagnosed and fixed. Oops, your wastegate failed and you ran too much boost, you damaged your engine. Oops, the turbo oil drain line was poorly routed and you blew out the seals in the turbo. These are all headaches that were not possible before, but are entirely possible now.

And on top of this you've definitely voided any hope of a warranty - wait for this generation to be out of warranty for a while and you'll get more people willing to hack shit up.

What is the cost of an ST compared to the value of your SE + cost of turbo kit + cost of installation headache + daily driving headache? ST2s go for $22-24 all day brand new. If you can give up MFT and leather, ST1s go for under $19k.

FSWerk's Stage 1 kit goes for $3500. Your $18,500 SE + $3500 turbo kit = $22K. Now imagine you can get a car with a 6-speed, fully-defeatable traction/stability control, partial-leather Recaros, high performance tires, performance-tuned suspension, factory-quality design and installation, and a 3 year warranty for the same price.

Now do you see why everyone says "just get the ST"?

edit: And I'll say from a BTDT viewpoint, extensive mods to your DD and only car is a dumb thing to do. Your car will be down, sometimes for days or weeks. Unless you want to be "that guy" constantly bumming rides or missing work, keep DD mods simple.
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Old 05-18-2014, 05:27 PM   #458
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^^^This I can appreciate.

Although you basically say "Trade for an ST", at least you supported your viewpoint and were understanding of my opinion in your answer.

You make a great point as well, admittedly I have never seen a new ST go far as low as the one you found. I've never turbo'd a vehicle myself so I guess it's a little more idealistic for me. Looks like I've got a little cost-benefit analysis to weigh more carefully.
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Old 05-18-2014, 05:28 PM   #459
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Originally Posted by SaintBFair View Post
It's interesting to me that a large part of the argument is that the aftermarket for the ST is larger than the aftermarket for the N/A Focus. As a moderator for both forums I am sure you have noticed that there are considerably more threads and activity on the "DURATEC Ti-VCT Performance (2012-Current)" sub-forum than the ST sub-forum. I'm sure globally there is a larger market for ST aftermarket parts... obviously people who were willing to shell out the extra dough at the dealership for a turbo Focus are probably more willing to spend more money on performance.

However, considering at least here on FocusFanatics, there seems to be a larger interest in squeezing some performance out of the Ti-VCT (of which more people purchased on this site, evidenced by forum activity), one would think we could have a serious discussion about it. Not be dismissed in four sentences for getting one material fact wrong.

I got the vehicle I could afford to finance. I did my math and really wanted an ST, but unfortunately it wasn't in the cards for me at the time. Now that I have my first serious career position out of college, I can afford to do some thing to my car. Nothing big but if I saved up for a few months, I could justify a few larger purchases. I can't afford to trade in my car, and even still, I like my car. I really do, its fun to drive and i'm not trying to make a race car. Just a daily driver that is a bit more spirited than stock.

This is exactly why I have had account with this forum for over a year and never posted anything. Everyone is so negative and dismissive. I didn't sign up to be told that "You should have got the ST". Hey, thats an idea! So we don't mislead new focus owners like me, we should rename "DURATEC Ti-VCT Performance (2012-Current)" to "You Should Have Got An ST If You Want Anything Besides a CAI, Exhaust, and Tune (2012-Current)".

...

Sorry if I seem upset. This is my first activity outside of the New Member sub-forum and I feel disheartened. I understand my first post wasn't extremely clear and rather lengthy and it's completely possible you just skimmed over it. But could you just let us have our fun in hypothesizing what our cars can do as opposed to dismissing us because we didn't buy an ST? It's like all our parents used to say "If you don't have anything nice to say...". I do genuinely appreciate the clarification on Duratec and Ford. I did not understand that. What set me off was that you chose to dismiss the rest of my inquiry and even went so far as to highlight the portion of my post "Trade in for an ST!". I wasn't trying to even challenge people of that opinion, its a fine opinion. I just happen to disagree with it and had tried to covey I was not looking for that.
No one is telling you that you have to get an ST, but if you really wanted a turbocharged car with a lot of aftermarket potential without having to home brew every single component and without throwing resale value out the window you would have needed to buy the other car.

It's not just the community saying to get an ST, as people were fighting even just to get tuning for the N/A MK3 Focus as although the market of available MK3 N/A models is much greater than that of the ST the base MK3 is also sold to more people who just want a reasonable commuter car that's good on gasoline and doesn't require too much maintenance.

If you're serious about turbocharging the N/A engine you would need to look at new pistons at a minimum to lower the compression ratio unless you only wished to run 5-8 PSI of boost, no one currently makes a direct fit turbo manifold for the N/A, and the ST is integrated into the head of the engine.

No one argues that technically it can be done. However there is not currently a viable market for this. It was never going to be an off the shelf component however.

The reason for the lower activity on the ST sub forums here is that they also have their own dedicated forums (focusst.org and fordstnation.com among others) where the majority of owners online seem to congregate to discuss performance modifications.

Much of the activity in the Ti-VCT section as of late has been repetitive and wil, however if there is a demand for parts taking that demand to the suppliers would be more successful than whining about the lack of availability of hard performance parts beyond that of the existing CAI, Tune, and Exhaust modifications already available to max out the N/A platform as it sits.

There is always a faster car or a bigger house, or a better looking phone or anything else you can name. If you're happy with what you have then that's really all that matters.
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Old 05-18-2014, 05:37 PM   #460
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I seriously wish someone would throw a turbo in the Mk3 and be done with it. I think there is a lot of potential and that it could make for a fun build/dd. All of the parts and tuning exist, all it would take is someone with extra running-around money and some mechanical ability.

Realistically speaking though, someone comes around every month or two with the same discussion and nothing happens. Without a plug-and-play kit, everyone runs away. And to make it worse, I don't think there is enough of a market for an aftermarket company to want to produce one. I just honestly don't think it would sell enough to make the endeavor meaningful for the company that makes it.

That's clearly only my opinion based on what I've seen/read/know about the Mk3, but it's very difficult to justify the cost when the ST exists. My ST3 literally cost significantly less than my Ti, and in order to make a large enough price-gap from the ST1 to justify the work someone would basically have to buy a S model sedan. And if you think things don't exist for the Mk3, it's even worse for sedan owners.

It will eventually happen. I've thought about it, but now that I have the ST I realize just how futile the endeavor would be (at least for me personally). By the time I got done buying and fabricating everything I would be making 'x' amount of power, but that money could be spent on the ST and give me a stage 3 + big-turbo upgrade putting down 300+ hp/tq. And with the ST I don't have to worry about grenading the DCT.

You're more than welcome to do it and be the first. Don't worry about the negativity and just push through. But realistically speaking no one here can really 'help' because no one here has boosted the Ti-VCT.
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