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Old 07-16-2014, 04:38 PM   #31
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Hmmn - not sure how they run three functions through a dual-filament bulb, but ...
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Old 07-16-2014, 05:32 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger-Heli View Post
Hmmn - not sure how they run three functions through a dual-filament bulb, but ...
I am probably wrong, but maybe think of it as only two filaments are being used, one or both at a time. One is just lights on, but both are used for the breaking and turning function. Now how those functions are programmed and wired is how those two filaments are used.

Again, I'm probably wrong of course. But just a theory.
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Old 07-17-2014, 06:13 AM   #33
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Not sure either and don't have access to a 2007 Schematic.

Logically, if I were doing the circuit - I would do the following:

Parking/tail light should be on the secondary (less bright filament).

Brake would be on the main filament and you would flash the main filament when the turn signal is applied.

But you need some fancy circuitry to turn off the brake light input when the turn signal is activated.

Not sure how it affects you - as you are no longer putting a load resistor across the parking light circuit - it is now probably across both the brake and parking light circuit.

Detailed info in the other thread also: http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/s...=289297&page=3
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Old 07-17-2014, 08:45 AM   #34
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I see that you emailed str_led_lighting at ebay and asked about the reverse lights I got. Thanks for posting their reply.

From their response and the description of the LED's, these LED's can be placed into either a 3156 or 3157 socket, of course. When a 3157 bulb is placed into a 3156 socket, the only functionality that you'll get out of the bulb is a steady state max bright.

When you take that same 3157 bulb and put it into a 3157 socket, that socket will take advantage of the full functionality of the design behind the bulb. Meaning, your LED's will go from from 50-65% brightness to max 100% brightness (say from parked to when you press down on the brake). If you put a 3156 bulb into that same socket, you would not see that. What you would actually see (I'm guessing) is it turn off to full blast on like the reverse lights. So, now that I think of it, they would not work as I would have liked. For example, if driving at night your tail lights would be at bright. Then, when you brake, you would not notice a difference in brightness, which is why you would be required to have the dual filament 3157/4157 bulbs.

That's why these LED's are marked as being compatible in both 3156/3157 sockets. If placed into a 3156 socket, they simply turn from off to solid state bright (reverse lights that you asked std_led_lighting about). If placed into a 3157 socket, the LED's will go from dim to bright when necessary (braking/turning).

When I connect LED's I bought from std_led_lighting for my cluster, and connected them directly to +V/-V on a variable power supply, they aren't just on and off. Below:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281199334343...S:1120&vxp=mtr

As I increase the voltage on the supply, they kick on at about 7V and increase in intensity as I increase the voltage. At 24V, you were unable to look at them as they were piercingly bright.

With that in mind, if you place one of those LED's into a 3157 socket, that second wire would be providing more voltage to the LED's that are already getting voltage. The only reason for the load resistor is to "trick" the flash relay. The flash relay does not come into play unless you trigger the turn signal.

Hopefully someone who definitely knows this can provide a more in-depth explanation. I'm only talking from what I've done personally (with the cluster LED's) and my understanding about the single and double filament bulbs. I think of the double filaments as being the same size. When one is provided voltage, it is at max brightness (parked). When both are provided voltage. it's the same amount of light from each filament, but combined are much brighter. Only one filament is triggered by the brakes/flash relay.

That's my thinking. Sorry for rambling.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:50 AM   #35
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You are close, but you aren't quite right ...

Here again is the incandescent 3157 info:
http://www.donsbulbs.com/cgi-bin/r/b.pl/3157.html

The primary filament on the bulb is 27W, the secondary filament is 7W. When you plug it in a 3157 brake/tail socket and turn on the tail lights, the 7W filament lights up. Step on the brake and the 27W filament lights up. Step on the brake with the lights on and BOTH filaments light up 34W.

Now - if you place the incandescent 3157 bulb in a 3156 socket, the socket only contacts the main filament - so you get 27W of lighting - not 34W.

What I don't know is how much light you are losing - on a 3157 Switchback LED, half the lights are white and half are amber so you are losing half the light output. According to the seller, they are 2.5x as bright in brake compared to tail.

It may well be that it doesn't matter - i.e. with an incandescent bulb, we are talking about the difference between standing on the brakes and flipping the parking lights on and off - I'm not sure that is noticeable, but it might be. There is SOME lost potential brightness using a 3157 LED in a 3156 application.

(The LED has no way of knowing whether it is in a 3156 or 3157 socket - it just knows it has 12V on the primary filament wire).

If you want to test when you get your bulbs - connect the primary contacts to your variable power supply at 12.8-13.5 V - that is what you will see in the 3156 socket. Then connect the secondary filaments and you will see what potential light is being lost.

(Thinking about it, you could solder a jumper between the contacts on the LED to make them full brightness, but it isn't worth the hassle.)

Quote:
So, now that I think of it, they would not work as I would have liked
Not following you - you bought 3157 LED's for the tails. They should be reduced brightness for the tails, high brightness for the brake, and high brightness flashing for the turns. They should work just like the bulbs you replaced except brighter and less lag b/c of not having to wait for the filament to heat up and cool down.

Quote:
As I increase the voltage on the supply, they kick on at about 7V and increase in intensity as I increase the voltage.
Doesn't matter for this - car electronics is 12.8 VDC, and doesn't vary - different circuits for brake and tail, and they flash the 12V for turn.

The only think close to that is - (there are two situations close to that) - when you dim the dash lights, they use a rheostat to reduce the voltage to the lights - and the dome light is set to gradually dim. I haven't tested that yet, but I think they use PWM for that (Pulse Width Modulation) - i.e. instead of sending 12V, then 11, then 10, they send 12V square wave constant for 1 second, then off and on for a 1/2 second, then off or 3/4 second and on for 1/4 etc.) (Overly simplified). I think with an LED, that might just make the light flicker and turn off instead of fading out.

Quote:
With that in mind, if you place one of those LED's into a 3157 socket, that second wire would be providing more voltage to the LED's that are already getting voltage.
No - it isn't more voltage, it is voltage on a second circuit. And I don't know how the LED bulbs split the circuit, but - http://www.hyundai-forums.com/231-md...ml#post2146698 - they don't vary the voltage to the LED's either - one circuit lights some of the LED's (a 5050 module has 3 individual LED's) and the other circuit lights the remaining ones.

Quote:
The only reason for the load resistor is to "trick" the flash relay.
You need to scroll up a bit in the other thread (with the seller's reply). The reason for the load resistor is so the car doesn't think there is a burnt-out bulb in the circuit. You get hyperflashing if you swap out ANY turn signal bulb - but you get other issues (probably no flash) if you swap out ALL the parking light bulbs and license bulbs (according to Sniper Focus).

Quote:
When both are provided voltage. it's the same amount of light from each filament, but combined are much brighter.
Not necessarily. DEFINITELY not for incadescent 3157/4157. Probably for switchback LED's. Probably NOT for other 3157 LED's.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:59 AM   #36
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I was unaware of the total watts provided to each filament. That makes sense. Thanks for the information.

I've just ordered these from superbright:

Tail: http://www.superbrightleds.com/morei...wer-leds/1688/

Reverse: http://www.superbrightleds.com/morei.../#/tab/Reviews

I'll install both (from ebay and these) and let you know how they operate and compare to one another. I'll also try to post comparison pics at night. I hope it will help others on the board.

Again, good info Tiger.
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Old 07-17-2014, 12:40 PM   #37
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Hmmmn, I wouldn't have done that - but I'm assuming you figure you can return or re-sell the ones you like least.

Predictions (but I'm not an expert on this):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/270751797527...84.m1497.l2649 - 18 SMD 5050 - I've seen various sites saying the 5050 is between 15 and 25 lumens. These should be moderately bright and well-made and reliable.

http://www.superbrightleds.com/morei...Specifications 36 SMD 3014's. Not crazy about the glass lens over the LED's, but that's okay. I'm not familiar with SMD 3014's - SMD 1210's are roughly 1/2 as bright as 5050's. I would expect these to be brighter than the SMD 5050's, but more chips = more solder joints = less reliability.

http://www.amazon.com/Jtech-3157-Pow...Jtech+3157+red - These are what I was considering - they LOOK like and claim to be Cree and Epistar. If they are, they should be brighter than either one above, but they might be poorly constructed or cheap knock-offs or both.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3156-3157-15...-/271547334256 - I liked these lights - enough that I was thinking about maybe going with them instead of the ones I originally planned for above - I'm thinking those are 5630 chips - if so, they should be brighter than the ones I was considering - even in a 3156 application. (See reviews on these - http://www.amazon.com/Amber-Samsung-...rds=DT+Trading - although reviews on other colors say they died in six months, but that isn't the chips fault).

Personally - in your position, I would have been more likely to go with these for the brake/tail - http://www.ebay.com/itm/3156-3157-15...-/271547334256
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Old 07-17-2014, 12:58 PM   #38
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Hey Tiger,

I expect to have the ones off of ebay by Monday. If you can wait, I can post pics of the differences on Tuesday. This should help you decide on the reverse as I really liked them too.

I am experimenting and haven't heard much on what people choose to go with from their own experiences. So I will try these four out and post pics for peoples own reference. I'll be the guinea pig on this one. ;)
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Old 07-17-2014, 01:47 PM   #39
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I'm not in a huge rush.

And yes, cameras often don't capture it well and neither do reviews. (I've seen the same LED reviewed as "lights up the whole interior bright as daylight" and "not as bright as the OEM 211-2 bulb")

Looking forward to your reviews and impressions!
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Old 07-17-2014, 01:50 PM   #40
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hahaha, I love those reviews.

Let me try and do my best to capture it. I will take pics of my original lights along with them and let you know. I can take pics with the original on one side and the new ones on the other. Then remove the originals and compare the new sets side by side. That should help provide some insight into the differences between the three.
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