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Old 04-03-2012, 11:50 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Grinder View Post
Yes, dealers are paid to do warranty work and they make a profit although a smaller margin than on customer-pay work. But warranty coverage is a dealer reimbursement from the manufacturer. Dealers typically don't want to perform repairs that may not be covered because they may not get paid back. There is a monetary risk on behalf of the dealer to perform these types of repairs. There are many other implications the dealer has to deal with if they are caught committing warranty fraud.
Yes, Ford will want to know why there is a hole in the piston before paying the warranty claim.


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If you mod your car and break it - you should have the ethical fortitude to deal with the consequences. If you sell refrigerators and I break it in the process of making it cool better - are my repairs your problem or mine?
Agreed 100%.
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:20 AM   #42
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Lotus is constantly having to update their ECU's to keep people from modding them, but every time there are a few guys that get it done... Give it a little time once the cars are in the hands of the right people
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:30 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by sassynapoleon View Post
VAG's tuner scene has already cracked the Bosch MED17 for VAG vehicles. 1024-bit encryption means you can't change the code through the diagnostic port. The ECU has protection that doesn't allow it to be reflashed without the key. Tuners have to remove the ECU from the vehicle and bench flash it, using a probe.

Once the ECU has been flashed once it can then take updates via the diagnostic port, as the flash disables the security. Note that if you ever have your tuner restore your original ECU flash (before taking the car for service, for example), you will need to repeat the bench flash again.
The consensus among several tuners is that there is simply no way to "crack" the ECU through the diagnostic port although some are offering bench flashing as you stated.

Another issue is the seal that must be broken to open the ECU:

"The ECU on Golf R is extremely difficult to open (as it is on other vehicles), what makes this more difficult is that the manufacturer had applied bonding agent on the cover (normal) and special heat absorbing glue on the circuitry adjoining the ECU cover. The golf R which was towed to us from another location is a perfect example. The car arrived here with ECU out and I saw first hand the damage cause on that ECU (this was also a physical damage caused during ECU opening attempt, beyond belief).
...check the ECU out as it will have tell tale signs of opening and non factory re-sealing. Not to scare you or anything, but I have seen open ECU's tuned and not sealed properly (2 types of bonds required and heat tools + lots of care and attention to detail) and if you see where they are located in the modern VW's, they can pick up moisture and corrode circuits over period of time."

(quoted from another site)

Exactly what this means for the ST remains to be seen. It's very likely that some European tuners (with MED17 experience) will be doing bench tunes. AFAIK, Cobb is not currently tuning any cars with the MED17 so it may not be realistic to expect anything from them until sometime in 2014 if at all (send ECU to Cobb before getting AP?)

In any case, any dealer visit could easily result in the bench flash being replaced by a factory update.
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:42 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Sonic_HedgeHog View Post
Lotus is constantly having to update their ECU's to keep people from modding them, but every time there are a few guys that get it done... Give it a little time once the cars are in the hands of the right people
The MED17 with tuning protection has been available for a couple of years already (it is widely used in European cars).

As stated in the above thread: The consensus among several tuners (including Revo, APR, etc.) is that there is simply no way to "crack" the ECU through the diagnostic port.

Maybe it's not such a bad thing in that I'm not sure how much power you would want in a car that only has 1WD.
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:47 AM   #45
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It only takes one brave "tuner" or "hacker" to open up his ECU and crack it on the bench... That's how it starts
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Old 04-04-2012, 01:00 AM   #46
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It only takes one brave "tuner" or "hacker" to open up his ECU and crack it on the bench... That's how it starts
This is already being done. Unfortunately, it doesn't change that fact that it cannot be tuned through the OBD port (without opening it first).
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Old 04-04-2012, 05:25 AM   #47
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Well, there's one Mustang I can outrun. He/she is lucky the drive shaft didn't find a nice pothole and pole-vault the car. That is why driveshaft straps are required in racing. It's all in the balancing people. That driveshaft wasn't perfectly balanced and thus failed at high rpm- not engine rpm, but driveshaft rpm.

I'd like to add that I'm disappointed in Ford. They should be clarifying how to prove that someone modified a car instead of trying to prevent it. The simple fact is that people who are going to modify are going to find a way to do it, and those who aren't- aren't. Why not embrace the market instead of discourage it? One method leads to more sales, and the other method leads to more lawsuits. WTH are they thinking? Yes stupid people will screw up, and try to get away with not paying for it. That's not Ford's fault. Focus on proving those instead of alienating responsible people who understand that their mods will void their warranty.

This touches on my major Ford pet peeve: no unified engine bell housing pattern. Who wouldn't want to be able to install any engine they could fit in their car on the same transmission? 3.5 Cyclone Focus anyone? Ford changes patterns like underwear to discourage engine swappers. Wake up Ford, your schemes aren't working as well as you think, so find a new path and you just might get some customers from it.
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:57 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by whynotthinkwhynot View Post
Well, there's one Mustang I can outrun. He/she is lucky the drive shaft didn't find a nice pothole and pole-vault the car. That is why driveshaft straps are required in racing. It's all in the balancing people. That driveshaft wasn't perfectly balanced and thus failed at high rpm- not engine rpm, but driveshaft rpm.

I'd like to add that I'm disappointed in Ford. They should be clarifying how to prove that someone modified a car instead of trying to prevent it. The simple fact is that people who are going to modify are going to find a way to do it, and those who aren't- aren't. Why not embrace the market instead of discourage it? One method leads to more sales, and the other method leads to more lawsuits. WTH are they thinking? Yes stupid people will screw up, and try to get away with not paying for it. That's not Ford's fault. Focus on proving those instead of alienating responsible people who understand that their mods will void their warranty.
Trust me, the factory-aftermarket deal is more complicated than it may seem. Besides, Ford is one of the largest suppliers of aftermarket "go-fast" of their products.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/

Go find another manufacturer with a parts catalogue, infastructure or dealer network that can hold a candle to FRPP. Or just don't bother wasting your time because you won't find one!

Quote:
This touches on my major Ford pet peeve: no unified engine bell housing pattern. Who wouldn't want to be able to install any engine they could fit in their car on the same transmission? 3.5 Cyclone Focus anyone? Ford changes patterns like underwear to discourage engine swappers. Wake up Ford, your schemes aren't working as well as you think, so find a new path and you just might get some customers from it.
I suppose I can understand how this is frustrating but c'mon. If Ford could be more financially sound by dedicating time to accomodate people that want to create frankenstein versions of cars several model years old they would. Unfortunately, we are discussing a worldwide passenger car manufacturer for the masses and not some privately-owned specialty car company. Frustrating? Sure. Unrealistic expectations? I think so. Don't worry, cookie-cutter drivetrains are actually a common goal of many modern automakers.
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:54 AM   #49
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it will be cracked
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Old 04-06-2012, 01:35 PM   #50
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Well that wasn't very nice of you, Ford..
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