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Old 03-27-2012, 04:44 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger_mclaren View Post
That's nothing new. How many people have seen the video of the guy that removed the factory speed limiter on a v6 mustang?

YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
hahaha
thats funny
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:34 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Phokus View Post
Wait.. so what if you buy a spare unit and keep your original one stock safe somewhere.
Break/tune the spare one, install that one and have fun.
Unfortunately, it's not that simple.

For example, if you swapped the PCM between two 2012 Focuses, neither car would start.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:02 PM   #33
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It's not that the PCM cannot be programmed/updated thru the diagnostic port.

The protection mechanism requires a valid RSA signature of any code that is downloaded during OBD programming. The RSA signature has a 1024 bit key that makes it virtually uncrackable.

And this matters how?
Any older EEC-V requires a seed/key also to update/flash tune.

Where the complaining comes into play is with people who just don't understand. This 'I want it all and I want it now' attitude of current just doesn't bode well with tuning companies ...
The tune company, lets use SCT as an example, will have to contact the ECU MFG. and pay for access to the keys (for off road purposes only). If the cost of these keys is too great the profit margin becomes very low, based on a reasonable selling price. That can make it not worth SCT's time to offer any tuning software/hardware for the box.
To add to that, the box company doesn't care one bit about aftermarket support. They have a guaranteed payment amount from Ford and a contract to fulfill.
Even more of a problem is that SCT has to have the approval of Ford to modify the code in any way. This is due to IPR laws and Ford being the sole owner of the code.

All of this is doable and has been done many times in the past. The thing is, as a business, SCT has to asses weather it's something they can market and profit from.
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Old 03-28-2012, 10:38 AM   #34
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^ I agree with the above post.

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Upon its arrival, the Ford Focus ST will be getting the full COBB Tuning treatment, similar to the turbocharged Subarus, GT-Rs, Mazdas and Mitsubishis that came before it. This includes the popular AccessPORT hand-held flashing device, AccessTUNER tuning software, supporting power bolt-on upgrades to the intake and exhaust systems and more.
http://blogs.cobbtuning.com/2011/11/...ocus-revealed/


So either they know something we don't, they have access to keys, or they are severely misinformed. The latter would be very unfortunate.

Thanks for the info OP. I'm very interested to see how this plays out and what kind of power the community will be able to squeeze from the ST once the tuning software is released.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:02 PM   #35
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iminhell has it spot on. Besides, they said the same thing about the PCM in the 6.7 diesels and there where tuners available days after they hit the showroom floor.

If you don't think the "under-appreciated" code writers at Bosch are selling the unlock codes to big name tuning companies... you live in a bubble.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:13 PM   #36
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I wont buy one if there is no tuning for the ECU and parts makers like my self WONT be making many parts for the cars

It always amazes me thar Ford had a division Ford Racing Parts and they sell engine mods for the 2012 but they dont want any one in the ECU , Its like we want you to buy our performance parts just dont put them on the car

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Old 04-03-2012, 02:35 AM   #37
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VAG's tuner scene has already cracked the Bosch MED17 for VAG vehicles. 1024-bit encryption means you can't change the code through the diagnostic port. The ECU has protection that doesn't allow it to be reflashed without the key. Tuners have to remove the ECU from the vehicle and bench flash it, using a probe.

Once the ECU has been flashed once it can then take updates via the diagnostic port, as the flash disables the security. Note that if you ever have your tuner restore your original ECU flash (before taking the car for service, for example), you will need to repeat the bench flash again.


http://www.sharkperformance.co.uk/ne...cle.asp?id=129

The "OMG warranty void" fear is overstated. The manufacturer can deny warranty claims on a case-by-case basis for damage that is caused because of a modification, but it has to be fairly directly related. Under no circumstances is your warranty voided. Furthermore, dealers get paid when they perform warranty repairs. It's not in their interest to deny a job and piss off a customer all in one fell swoop.
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Old 04-03-2012, 02:51 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger_mclaren View Post
That's nothing new. How many people have seen the video of the guy that removed the factory speed limiter on a v6 mustang?
That guy's an idiot. That said, Ford should be embarrassed, embarrassed, that a 300+ HP pony car suffers a catastrophic driveshaft failure like that at 130 mph. Sure, that speed is stupid illegal on the street in the US, but your average grocery getter in Germany can hit 130 (legally) without exploding.
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Old 04-03-2012, 06:19 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by sassynapoleon View Post
That guy's an idiot. That said, Ford should be embarrassed, embarrassed, that a 300+ HP pony car suffers a catastrophic driveshaft failure like that at 130 mph. Sure, that speed is stupid illegal on the street in the US, but your average grocery getter in Germany can hit 130 (legally) without exploding.
I agree with both of your points.

Back when I was stupid, I took my 91 LX 5.0 past 140mph a few times, and she only had 225hp. Sometimes I wish I still had Sofie, she was crude by today's standards, but she never let me down.

You're also right about the VAG guys tuning the Bosch. I was looking at the CR TDI's, there are a few tuners bench tuning the ECU's and then offering flash tuning support. Didn't know that once reverted it had to be bench set again.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:58 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassynapoleon View Post
VAG's tuner scene has already cracked the Bosch MED17 for VAG vehicles. 1024-bit encryption means you can't change the code through the diagnostic port. The ECU has protection that doesn't allow it to be reflashed without the key. Tuners have to remove the ECU from the vehicle and bench flash it, using a probe.

Once the ECU has been flashed once it can then take updates via the diagnostic port, as the flash disables the security. Note that if you ever have your tuner restore your original ECU flash (before taking the car for service, for example), you will need to repeat the bench flash again.


http://www.sharkperformance.co.uk/ne...cle.asp?id=129

The "OMG warranty void" fear is overstated. The manufacturer can deny warranty claims on a case-by-case basis for damage that is caused because of a modification, but it has to be fairly directly related. Under no circumstances is your warranty voided. Furthermore, dealers get paid when they perform warranty repairs. It's not in their interest to deny a job and piss off a customer all in one fell swoop.
I wasn't aware about the bench flashind deal. Thanks.

Your warranty comments are accurate for the most part but the "burden of proof" isn't as simple as it may seem. If the manufacturer suspects the damage to the vehicle is a result of modification, they can deny warranty coverage of those specific repairs. So yes, the entire warranty isn't necessarily "voided". However, it is up to the OWNER to challenge the decision in court or arbitration and that usually creates a greater financial burden on the customer than paying for the suspect repairs out of pocket. Yes, dealers are paid to do warranty work and they make a profit although a smaller margin than on customer-pay work. But warranty coverage is a dealer reimbursement from the manufacturer. Dealers typically don't want to perform repairs that may not be covered because they may not get paid back. There is a monetary risk on behalf of the dealer to perform these types of repairs. There are many other implications the dealer has to deal with if they are caught committing warranty fraud.

If you mod your car and break it - you should have the ethical fortitude to deal with the consequences. If you sell refrigerators and I break it in the process of making it cool better - are my repairs your problem or mine?
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