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Old 03-12-2012, 07:53 PM   #21
bespurcell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mile30 View Post
True facts on the throttle body, however fuel trim is computer work. If you add more fuel, it cools the burn in the cylinder, which gives you more power.
How does "cooling the burn" give you more power?
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:13 PM   #22
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Nos

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Originally Posted by bespurcell View Post
How does "cooling the burn" give you more power?
Could be he was going to add NOS to that more fuel.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:18 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
This should be in the duratec section

There is no cheap way to gain HP , Header , intake , TB , tune , Exh might get you 15 - 20 HP to the wheels

Tom
That's it? I thought for sure with an Intake/TB/Header/Flex/Exhaust/Tune/Engine torque mounts you could come closer to 30 whp. Is 30 out of the question with just those mods on the 2.0 Duratec? For nearly $2K, I figured you'd get a little more than that.


What kind of 1/4 times can a Duratec 2.0 run with a 15+ HP gain, ballpark?
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:09 AM   #24
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A light weight Fly on the Focus you cannot tell it revs faster and it adds little to no power

As for making telling the ECU that its 5 to 10 deg cooler then it is wont do a thing on the Focus 20 years ago with the early ECU yes you could see some changes by doing it and in the end it spark knocked most of the time from the added timing , 10 deg now would add maybe .5 to 1 deg and it it wasent needed the ECU would pull it right out because of other things it is looking for

You are correct to a point adding more fuel does cool the Cyl but if you add more fuel and it isnt needed you loose power , just because you add fuel and cool the cyl doesnt mean you are going to make more HP or TQ

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Old 03-18-2012, 11:53 PM   #25
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Since this thread started out with a Duratec, all of my comments below pertain to the Duratec. I assume the Zetec is not much different, but I have never worked on one.

Quote:
Let's work out the logic: If the PCM is told it's running a few (and that's VERY important, if you eff-up your math and get it wrong by twenty degrees = not good) degrees cooler than it's been programmed to run 'optimally', it does what?! adds air and fuel to warm it all up; the net result is more power and a slight loss of mpgs.
I agree...lets work out the logic!
1-The PCM/ECU is programmed to react to the actual ECT and ACT by adding/subtracting timing.
2-It does not add air or fuel based on temperature. At WOT, fuel is added based on the mass of air the MAF sensor detects, not ECT. If the actual air temp entering the engine is lowered, the MAF sensor will detect a greater mass and will adjust fuel to match this amount of actual air.

Quote:
adds air and fuel to warm it all up
It simply does not work this way. The ECU does not have a target temperature and does not add air or fuel to change anything. If you trick the ECU into thinking the ECT or ACT is colder, all it will do is add timing. The problem is you dont know how close you already are to detonation. You might add a few degrees and be fine, or you might activate the knock sensor which can pull more timing than you added, taking a step backwards. Bottom line: Without careful datalogging, you really dont know what is happening!

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the net result is more power and a slight loss of mpgs
I am almost at a loss for words. I assume you are thinking that you added more fuel and this is where your power gains are from. This is kind of irrelevant, because what you are doing will not change the A/F ratio. For arguments sake, lets say you did add more fuel. How could you say you will gain power when you did not know the A/F ratio to begin with. Maybe it was too rich to begin with. How many stock engines have you datalogged? I datalogged mine when it was 100% stock and the A/F ratio at WOT was so rich it went off the range of my wideband at 10:1! If it was any richer, I think it would have died. Most naturally aspirated engines make their peak power around 13:1 A/F ratio. Chances are that your stock ECU is already running richer than this.

Quote:
based on it, and other sensors, the computer reacts to change a/f ratio to suit for the optimal setting in the stock maps
Once again, the ECU does not adjust A/F ratio based on ECT

Quote:
a cold engine creates more NOX and other pollutants, Ford engineered efficiency into the system for emissions sake, not power
You are correct in the above statement as it pertains to idle and part throttle cruising(Closed Loop Operation). Once you go WOT(Open Loop Operation) everything changes. The ECU is not programmed for emissions at WOT, it is programmed to run rich enough to be safe and is most likely too rich for max power to begin with.
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:03 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
A light weight Fly on the Focus you cannot tell it revs faster and it adds little to no power

Tom
granted it doesnt add power, but shaving 16 lbs of rotating mass can be felt, and seen, and heard, lol. my car does spin up a fair bit faster than a stocker, and it also doesn't hang at rpm anymore. it jsut drops right off. (unless the throttlebody is dirty again. )
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Old 03-20-2012, 03:34 PM   #27
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agreed i love my lightweight fly i just hate the friggin chatter
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Old 03-20-2012, 04:15 PM   #28
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Hanging revs is from the IACV not the flywheel , a tune can adjust how fast the revs come down

Tom
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:48 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mile30 View Post
Hell yes I believe it, I've done it twice already! It feels like when you add a K&N cold air system; just a slight difference in performance... and probably more of a mental upgrade. No error codes, no pending codes.

Let's work out the logic: If the PCM is told it's running a few (and that's VERY important, if you eff-up your math and get it wrong by twenty degrees = not good) degrees cooler than it's been programmed to run 'optimally', it does what?! adds air and fuel to warm it all up; the net result is more power and a slight loss of mpgs.

I'm working with a friend to solder up a few different resistances on a few different ECT sensors and pulling with each on a dyno to get concrete numbers... to prove to everyone else what I've already realized.
Why not just tune the car? Seems like a lot of work "reinventing the wheel" and screwing with mechanical parts that are already calibrated properly.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:14 AM   #30
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Like the others have said, there's really no "cheap" way to make big gains in horsepower so be prepared to put a little in if you want to make power. I'd say start with the FSWerks stealth exhaust, CAI and race header (take it off when before you inspect cause it's not street legal, lol) with the flexpipe. Those should be your first mods, as opening up that exhaust and intake will give you a much better base to work on if you decide to do anything else. Plus too, if you went the turbo route, the gains seen there would noticably better compared to sticking with the constrictive stock stuff. Start with that first before you go any further because it will help you out in the long run when you do decide to get into the serious stuff.

If you can, I'd also recommend trying to find a local shop and dyno. The place I help out for charges $80 bucks for a run, not too much but prices can vary between shops. It's worth getting that baseline and being able to track progress. See how much an ecu tune would go for as well. The tough part is finding a place who has knowledge in Duratecs, as Honda shops will probably frown upon you in the Focus. It's unfortunate but I see it all the time. There's not a lot of domestic love around my area :(

After the exhaust and intake upgrades and you want to go further (that stuff will only give you 10-20 hp at the most), you need to decide whether or not you want to go turbo or N/A. Either way, some headwork will help you out a lot in either area. You won't see much of a gain in a stock engine as the Duratec already flows pretty decent out of the box but if you combine a higher flowing head with a turbo and a decent camshaft, you've got a winner. Then just upgrade your internals, valve springs and probably clutch. Concerning a flywheel, you won't see any noticeable horsepower gains but the lower inertia will help throttle and engine response

But for right now, start with the simple stuff and don't get carried away with the radical stuff. A better exhaust and intake builds the base for more serious upgrades down the road. Listen to 1turbofocus, he is Yoda regarding the Focus.
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