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View Poll Results: Which manufacturer do you dislike the most?
Honda 31 19.02%
Chevrolet 34 20.86%
Dodge 16 9.82%
Hyundai 9 5.52%
Chrysler 31 19.02%
Toyota 42 25.77%
Mazda 0 0%
Voters: 163. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-24-2012, 11:05 AM   #161
WiscoGTI
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i was waiting for this lol
It seems you know me too well, my friend.
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Old 05-26-2012, 03:01 PM   #162
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.......Also, find me a fleet/rental van new on the lot for less than $20,000. I'd like to see that. The van my company bought brand new 6 years ago cost considerably more than that.
Why do you need a breakdown of what percentage of Dodge Caravans came with 3.3 vs 3.8? They thoughtfully equipped lot stock based upon consumer demand. There were plenty of folks still choosing the available base 4 cylinder for Caravan duty thru Y2K, so wanna talk slow? Penny pinching people bought the cheapest motor possible and they need to embrace it's slowness. People who want power and fancy options need to fork out the coin to buy loaded vans with optional motors. In case you're not aware, there is another van called Town and Country with a Chrysler tag stuck on it. They sell heavily and most were loaded up with 3.8 or 4l motor. Dodge sold more 3.3's and Chrysler sold more 3.8's and 4L. There was no shortage of 3.8's thru Dodge if that's what you're suggesting. A dealer could locate you a 4L in a day. Why bother when the Chrysler was almost the same price when loaded up.

I don't want to hear folks whine about base motors with inadequate power. I guess you would also complain about a 1964 Ford Galaxie with 240 cube 1bbl 6cyl fleet motor, bought by the military, utilities and for basic business motorpool use? At time they also offered half dozen other motor combos including a crossbolt 427 8bbl option that would fry tires.

Did this fleet caravan you drove have a friggin' hydraulic bucket mounted on the roof for trimming trees? Maybe it was a Handicap version? What the heck drove it's cost above $20K? I turned down a deal for a 100% new 2008 Grand Caravan with 3.3L that was being offered for $16K. These came with cruise control, antilocks, 4 wheel discs, radio with CD, alum 16" wheels, power window and locks and other desired features. Totally loaded 2008 versions with 3.8L 6spd and DVD cost $21K at that time and another $2K got you NAV with DVD's and PC screens hanging from the roof. The vans of that era pushing over $25K had optional interiors with leather etc.

Full MSRP TODAY is about $21K for a new 2012 Grand Caravan 32valve 6spd with 4 wheel disc brakes, full stow-and-go package and all the standard goodies. Do you pay sticker for domestic cars? Large dealerships are selling these without haggling for around $18.5K out the door. About 6 yrs ago, the base model Grand Caravan was selling for $16K and the shorter Caravan was even less.

Do I need to show you how to buy a new vehicle? What fleet manager in his right mind would pay over full MSRP for a vehicle??????????????????? They get better pricing than any consumer so they should see at least $5K off sticker. Today's 2012 Grand Caravan fleet version equipped similar to a base consumer version probably sells for around $18K, or less, if bought in quantity.
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:46 PM   #163
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I don't really understand your verbose hostility. I tried not to let you get under my skin with your condescending 5 paragraph response filled with sarcasm and question marks, but you succeeded.

So, I went and checked the window sticker for that fleet '06 Grand Caravan C/V -- $22,010. NO, I don't necessarily know that my company actually paid sticker for it, but I sincerely doubt they paid $4,000 - $5,000 less as you suggest the vans were selling for. They're not buying vehicles in bulk quantity. At most the vehicles are purchased as needed, in a small lot of maybe 5 or 6 at a time, and not all from the same dealer(s).

This company may be a joint venture between two of the largest companies in Germany (and the world) but it is staffed with people who don't give a damn about anything. When that same Caravan began to fall apart and needed costly parts like the power steering rack, the fleet maintenance company needed the authorization of our fleet manager before proceeding. Guess what? No one knew who the fleet manager was... I don't think there actually was one. The van sat for weeks at the shop waiting on that authorization. I believe someone in our company must have ultimately been volunteered to 'become' the fleet manager. Never underestimate the colossal incompetence of a large company.
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:29 AM   #164
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i have 2 say i hate honda they sound like shit have no torque and every1 has them because they r cheap. when it comes to sport compact im ford all the way but no 1 makes a better muscle car then dodge old or new u just cant beat a mopar
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:24 PM   #165
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^most misguided, absurd post I've seem all day.
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:31 PM   #166
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^most misguided, absurd post I've seem all day.
I think the Memorial Day alcohol has already set in.
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:41 PM   #167
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:56 PM   #168
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yea yea yea ford has the mustang witch i love but the power and sound that u get from a built mopar u just cant beat. ive built more ford and mopar v8's than anything love how cheap the ford parts are but there is a reason that the super bird was kicked outa nascar it was 2 fast for the the other cars to keep up with
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Old 05-28-2012, 02:01 PM   #169
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yea yea yea ford has the mustang witch i love but the power and sound that u get from a built mopar u just cant beat. ive built more ford and mopar v8's than anything love how cheap the ford parts are but there is a reason that the super bird was kicked outa nascar it was 2 fast for the the other cars to keep up with
What are you even talking about?
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Old 05-28-2012, 03:14 PM   #170
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I really, really, really hate Dodge/Chrysler. Their cars are built terribly, are unsafe, unsporty, stupidly designed, and fall apart at the drop of a hat. I must not be all that bright then, considering I've had two.

Dodge/Chrysler - Where do you start, really? Unfortunately, before my current Focus, my two previous cars were from them. One was a '99 Neon (yes, a Neon; very technically it was my fiancee's car, and she bought it out of someone's yard). That Neon lasted until about 2008 or so, 101k miles before we discovered a fuel system problem. A recall problem the previous owner hadn't bothered to do anything about. At that point, it wouldn't pass emissions without a $1200 repair bill. The car was worth less than that. Cheap car, cheap seating, terrible suspension, bad paint, lazy engine and transmission, ugly as sin... Considering it was my fiancee's first car and she was strapped when she bought it, she can be forgiven. Enter our Chrysler PT Cruiser, from 2006, which we bought with about 40k rental miles on it. Why? Well, the Dodge bought it.

The PT Cruiser worked because it could haul music equipment and was decently cheap. Same stupid engine as the Neon, no torque, no power, marginally better but horrendously ugly interior. Really, really uncomfortable to be in for any stretch of time longer than about 15 minutes. We got rid of it at 87k miles because practically everything had gone awry with it. The timing belts never lasted, I had to replace the rear drums, front rotors (they were practically rusted on, too), the suspension was leaky, the radiator was cracked, and the engine mounts were so brittle they were pretty much broken. This was a six year old car. This is on top of it having NO steering feeling whatsoever, no ABS, no ESP, no traction control, no side airbags... It was like driving a very heavy, badly made, underpowered go-kart.

Another underwhelming and stupid car of theirs is the Stratus, which I unfortunately drove with my folks for a bit back when my stepmother totalled a car--my favorite of our cars, a used old AMG C Class Merc, RIP, ol' gal. Stupidly low-nosed for a family car, stupid steering, mindlessly bland interior, slow, cramped backseat--try being a lanky teenager who's tall for her age in that thing, it's not fun. The nose was so low, that when my stepmother crashed it--which she does invariably to any car she drives--it literally got under the car she rear-ended and lifted the victim's rear axle up onto the hood.

It doesn't seem like they're getting any better though. From the looks of the new Dodge Dart (Why resurrect the name of an already crap car?), which is really an Alfa Romeo Guilletta with Dodge Neon-inspired body panels (gross), and a Fiat engine (in some models, the engine from the 500 Abarth; which is a good engine, but not in a heavy car), and a curb weight of...nearly 3300 lbs!. Did I mention all this for around $25,000? Dodge's apparently trying to appeal to the young demographic, but in doing so has assumed that all people 18-35 are completely stupid. I haven't driven it, so I can't remark on that...but it's probably not very good. Dodge Quality (or rather, the lack thereof) in a deathly heavy compact car (which defeats the purpose of it being a sporty compact). No thank you, sir or madam. The only place that car is darting to is to the bottom of a lake, probably because the driver was trying (badly) to avoid a collision since airbags are probably 'optional' and they didn't want to have their face used as a crumple zone.
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