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Old 01-03-2012, 09:55 PM   #11
hoffmanr09
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My dad actually mentioned today when he drove my car that the focus has tight handling and similar steering and driving dynamics like his 03' BMW Z4. I have also been told by a mechanic that our transmission is like a bmw. Sounds good to me!!
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Old 01-03-2012, 10:05 PM   #12
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Nice thread, I noticed we have had many BMW converts over the time this new one has been released... any particular reason for that? I see handling is a big point.
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Old 01-03-2012, 10:36 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennut View Post
Probably the quickest of the 2012 Focus' is the SE with the 5 speed manual and sport package.
Why would the manual 5 be quicker than the auto 6?
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:44 PM   #14
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Why would the manual 5 be quicker than the auto 6?
Because there are different (closer) gear ratios in the 5 speed, leading to faster up shifts from 1-4 speeds, and one less gear to worry about. THe auto is great for everyday driving efficiency, but not to wring out the most torque from the engine...
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Old 01-04-2012, 12:13 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by st falcon View Post
Because there are different (closer) gear ratios in the 5 speed, leading to faster up shifts from 1-4 speeds, and one less gear to worry about. THe auto is great for everyday driving efficiency, but not to wring out the most torque from the engine...
I'm not sure that I am following you...

The auto applies more torque to the front wheels (where it really counts) in gears 1~5 than the manual does.

How do you determine that the manual has closer gear ratios (i.e. how do you calculate that)?
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:54 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Kabigon View Post
I'm not sure that I am following you...

The auto applies more torque to the front wheels (where it really counts) in gears 1~5 than the manual does.

How do you determine that the manual has closer gear ratios (i.e. how do you calculate that)?
The ratios are slightly closer in the 5 speed, meaning the driver will be able to stay on the torque curve even when shifting at a non optimal point in each gear. Basically the auto has to wind up through each gear a little longer, as the gears are taller (for better efficiency) in the DCT automated manual (the auto in the Focus)

Heres for site

Manual

between 1-2= 1.53
2-3= .69
3-4= .42

Auto

1-2= 1.542
2-3= .99
3-4= .41

Notice also the final drive ratio in the manual is one gear ratio, and there are two final drive gears in the auto. This is an attempt to make the auto rev quicker in 3rd and 4th, but really it is also more parasitic drag on the drivetrain (meaning a little less horsepower to the wheels there), and the driver in the manual has more control (and more fun!) over what gear goes in, and when, taking full advantage of their closer gear ratios and keeping the RPM's in the best torque band for acceleration.
The spread may not seem like much more in the auto, but between 1st and 4th is where you will spend most of your time accelerating, and it makes a big difference.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:03 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Kabigon View Post
Why would the manual 5 be quicker than the auto 6?
You can hold the clutch down and rev the engine to an optimal RPM, then engage the clutch in a precise (or dump it) way, getting the best launch. Try flooring the DCT. hopefully you have released the brake already, but have not begun moving, or you will have a pause, followed by a bogged down engine, followed by a non linear (read: jerky lol!) acceleration. I know, I have one....it was non negotiable as the wife will drive it, and prefers an auto...
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:06 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by st falcon View Post
You can hold the clutch down and rev the engine to an optimal RPM, then engage the clutch in a precise (or dump it) way, getting the best launch. Try flooring the DCT. hopefully you have released the brake already, but have not begun moving, or you will have a pause, followed by a bogged down engine, followed by a non linear (read: jerky lol!) acceleration. I know, I have one....it was non negotiable as the wife will drive it, and prefers an auto...
Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

I have been driving for 35 years and the Focus is my first car with an automatic. I can fully understand why a manual is preferred by an enthusiast (I prefer it myself) but in the case of the Focus, it would seem that the auto may have some advantage when considering the overall ratio (gear and final drive ratio).

MANUAL
1st 14.023
2nd 8.168
3rd 5.537
4th 3.931
5th 3.078

AUTO
1st 15.254
2nd 9.459
3rd 6.250
4th 4.446
5th 3.375
6th 2.735

With a shorter overall ratios for each gear, the auto trans will provide greater torque multiplication than the manual.

Regarding launching, I have heard the you can "launch" the DCT although I have never tried it as I fail to see the need to launch any car for street driving (unless someone is chasing you with a shotgun).

Needless to say, 6th gear (OD) is nice for cruising at 70+ MPH. It's too bad that the US spec Focus does not get the 6 speed manual for the SEL and Titanium.
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:53 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st falcon View Post
The ratios are slightly closer in the 5 speed, meaning the driver will be able to stay on the torque curve even when shifting at a non optimal point in each gear...

Manual

between 1-2= 1.53
2-3= .69
3-4= .42

Auto

1-2= 1.542
2-3= .99
3-4= .41
Since we are talking about ratios, you can't simply subtract the difference between the gears. Also, you must consider the overall ratio since the DPS6 has 2 final drive ratios.

For example, to calculate the ratio change from 1st to 2nd:
(ratio1 - ratio2) / ratio1 = ratio change

The ratio changes are as follows:

MANUAL
1 > 2 42%
2 > 3 32%
3 > 4 29%
4 > 5 22%

AUTO
1 > 2 38%
2 > 3 34%
3 > 4 29%
4 > 5 24%

For the 1 > 2 gear change, the auto has a closer gear ratio.
For 2 > 3 and 4 > 5, the manual has a closer gear ratio.
For 3 > 4, the ratio change is the same.


Quote:
Originally Posted by st falcon View Post
Basically the auto has to wind up through each gear a little longer, as the gears are taller (for better efficiency) in the DCT automated manual (the auto in the Focus)
Please see my previous post. Actually, the gearing in the manual is taller.

Last edited by Kabigon; 01-04-2012 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:49 AM   #20
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Interesting! I have not worked with a dual final drive trans before, so your insights are very helpful. With the two final drive ratios the auto might feel as quick, but I guarantee the manual will out accelerate the auto in a dual clutch application such as this one. If you have tried to launch the DCT you know what i mean.

I wish someone would re-program (tune) the DCT to react better to throttle input, as it seems to react to vehicle speed quite well...hopefully its physical limitations wont limit it to being rubbery and clunky at the same time...I only notice that at low speed and under hard acceleration.

Great replys guys...finally some real posts...
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