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Old 12-16-2011, 05:02 AM   #11
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^^So pretty already though lol
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Old 12-16-2011, 08:10 AM   #12
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OP check here for a coil plate. http://www.jayracing.com/index.php?m...roducts_id=189

You may need to call him and see if he can make one for you as he is currently out of stock. Also I know you dont care about performance nor should you this system will work fine for you so I apology for the long post I'm about to make but I feel I need to clarify my other statement.

Our systems are waste spark, 1 coil pack contains 2 coils and each side must charge and discharge twice per revolution. When you go COP you are now adding an extra coil to each side of the circuit which means you must fully charge and discharge 2 coils on the same circuit in the same amount of time in which the system was designed to charge 1. If you add high cylinder pressure from forced induction or high compression and the coil is not fully charged you will get a misfire if the spark is not strong enough to arc the plug gap.

(Corrected by Mike_Mac)
Keep in mind that in this system your coils will be firing at the same rate of RPM so at 6,000 rpm you need to fully charge and discharge 2 coils at the rate of 6,000 sparks per minute the same way you were originally charging 1.

In my opinion its easy to see how you could not fully charge these coils in performance applications to the point where they could cause a loss in power rather than a gain, and I have seen it stated on here before the cop is not recomended as people have had bad experience with it in such situations.

Now I'm not saying everything I stated is 100% correct or true, however I feel with a basic understanding of how things work you can see easily how this system can have its faults. I personally run a JayRacing plate with 300m coils and an MSD box. People can take my advice or not take it at the end of the day all my cars run great so it has no affect on me. All I'm saying is in the years i have been on this forum I have seen people say not to use cop and I'm just pointing out the obvious faults in the system.

<rant>Dont think that just because I have a low post count I'm an idiot I just dont like to debate stuff like this over the internet because any helpful insight I ever try to post is almost always drown out by people who have a suggestion from someone who had a similar problem on their wifes friends brothers car that was doing something different but hey it could apply to your situation so why not throw some parts instead of doing it right.</rant>

If anything I posted is wrong, please prove me wrong and I will delete everything in this post as I dont want to contribute to the misinformation that is all over these fourms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iminhell View Post
^You do realize I'm revving to 8,000 rpm and making ~185whp, right?
The 300m coils do just fine, not a single hiccup.

Last edited by bennyfocus; 12-16-2011 at 09:12 AM. Reason: Correcting misinformation
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Old 12-16-2011, 08:27 AM   #13
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wasted spark it will fire twice it normally would. each cylinder will fire once every 2 revs.

so 6000rpm wasted spark would mean its firing at 6000times/min. (as opposed to 3000times/min)

http://www.ngk.com/sparkplug411.asp?...gnition&mfid=1

wasted spark = fires on exhaust and compression stroke.
non-wasted spark = fires on on compression stroke
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Old 12-16-2011, 09:06 AM   #14
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Wow thanks hahaha I thought 12000 seemed off but I was in a rush to leave for work and completely over looked it takes 2 full crank rotations for a complete combustion cycle so you are correct it will fire at the same rate as the rpm. Credit where credit is due I will correct it now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Mac View Post
wasted spark it will fire twice it normally would. each cylinder will fire once every 2 revs.

so 6000rpm wasted spark would mean its firing at 6000times/min. (as opposed to 3000times/min)

http://www.ngk.com/sparkplug411.asp?...gnition&mfid=1

wasted spark = fires on exhaust and compression stroke.
non-wasted spark = fires on on compression stroke
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bennyfocus View Post
<rant>Dont think that just because I have a low post count I'm an idiot I just dont like to debate stuff like this over the internet because any helpful insight I ever try to post is almost always drown out by people who have a suggestion from someone who had a similar problem on their wifes friends brothers car that was doing something different but hey it could apply to your situation so why not throw some parts instead of doing it right.</rant>

If anything I posted is wrong, please prove me wrong and I will delete everything in this post as I dont want to contribute to the misinformation that is all over these fourms.

All I'm saying is that I am providing first hand knowledge. I don't know of many people who can say that, doesn't sound like you are. Just what you've read about the conversion/swap ... and it could very well be that what you've read is from the person I bought my kit from, who had it wired wrong and sold it due to problems. I fixed the wiring errors and it runs perfect.
You always have to read into the problem posts to see if the OP actually understood what they where doing in the first place. Most times they sorta did but took a shortcut and got lost.


I have the kit.
I have had it on the car for ~12,000 miles.
I have tested various spark plugs with it, Mot coppers, NGK's and Autolites. All performed at or better than stock nearest I could tell. Definitely not worse.
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Old 12-16-2011, 06:12 PM   #16
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http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/elec...x-misfire.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt...r-misfire.html

Huge problem in the dsm world and like I said I have the plate I have the coils but I also run an MSD box to make sure I have enough power to run my coils. I'd rather err on the side of caution as opposed to blowing out my bottom end. I never said this applied to you or the op I'm just stating information for anyone that stumbles across this in the future looking for help. I'm sure it works on yours fine I'm sure it will work on the op's car fine, hell im sure it would work fine on 90% of the foci on the road today. However for anyone looking to make big power I'm saying its no the ideal way to go without the aid of an ignition box.
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Old 12-23-2011, 10:32 AM   #17
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Hello guys, I'm a Ford Master tech! and I understand both Iminhell and Bennyfocus and both have a very valid point! Just a Question to Iminhell, Why are you wiring the coils in series? my thoughts are that when wiring in series it would lower the resistance of the secondary windings but in turn it would take twice the amps to charge both coils and would take more time to charge which is what bennyfocus is talking about which is dwell time, = time is takes to charge the coil to discharge the spark at high rpm there is too little time to charge both! and another point is that is would also stress the driver more on a series circuit so both of you have valid points. Another Question is why use 300M chryler coils? why not use Duratec coils and wire them in parallel? more resistance but easier on the driver but not trouble free, the driver still seeing more current than normal! The system is a waste spark and it fires on the exhaust stroke to which does absolutely nothing! but the same signal in the companion cylinder is on the compression side! which is why you are doing it. Just a theory I have not done it but have thought about the conversion in the past. Thanks
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Old 12-23-2011, 10:39 AM   #18
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P.S. According to Iminhell signal wire is #1 coil signal to fire Cylinder 1 and 4 are companions wire BK/OG and 2 and 3 are companions so they need to be wired together on #2 coil signal BK/GN for a wasted spark signal to work! and my opinion GN/BL 12v signal wire to all COP on he B+ side of the coils. so if resistance is the what we are going for! what is the combine resistance of the 300m coils vs the Duractec FORD coils? if you could theoretically wire them in parallel and have the same resistance as the OEM coil then no problem would be the results. thanks
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Old 12-23-2011, 06:50 PM   #19
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I forget exact resistance numbers but I used a meter to check ohms on everything before I installed mine. Two 300m coils wired in series equal the exact same resistance as one side of the stock coil. So therefore each coil driver circuit gets two 300m coils wired in series for your total of obviously 4 coils in all and both circuits keep the same resistance.
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Old 12-23-2011, 08:20 PM   #20
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I will let you guys debate what one works best , I have had both on the dyno and can say we saw no gains from adding the COP over the stock coil , with boost we could NOT run more spark gap over the stock coils

I think Roushturbofocus also had trouble out of his COP but he would have to say if and what

For looks I think it is sexy , for performance it seems to be a waste

Tom
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