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Old 01-22-2014, 09:30 AM   #81
codices
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codices View Post
Thanks for all the great information. I have a question I'm hoping someone familiar with the IMRC can help with.
I recently purchased a 5 speed 07 zx3 and I've been trying to troubleshoot a misfire which occurs at part throttle around 2000 rpm (only misfires once then stops, until I let off the throttle and give it throttle again). It also feels like the engine is surging while cruising on the highway, or anywhere at a steady speed and rpm with little throttle.
There is also a noise that I thought was a bad lifter, etc, but I've verified that it is the IMRC (tumble flaps) that are making the noise. Removing the vacuum line that goes to the IMRC diaphragm makes the sound go away completely. I think that the IMRC diaphragm or some part of the system is causing the flaps to open and close and is causing the problems with the misfire/surging and the ticking noise at idle.

Can this be repaired or does the whole manifold need to be replaced? Is it just the diaphragm that is bad, or is the linkage or flaps damaged?

Would it be better to drive around in the mean time with the vacuum line going to the IMRC diaphragm disconnected? Doing so caused a CEL.

Thanks for all the valuable information already provided and for any advice you have.
This turned out being a faulty coil, I replaced the coils and the problem went away.
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:25 PM   #82
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John Hennessy,
Which Focus IM do you have on your car; the 2.0L has one set of flaps (IMRC), the 2.3L Focus has two sets of flaps (IMRC and IMTV). I am guessing you have the 2.0L Focus IM. Do you know if the Ranger 2.3L IM had 1 or 2 sets of flaps? –why did you not use the Ranger IM?

When you start your engine, the IMRC should be in the CLOSED position and stay in the CLOSED position during idle. Yours is not operating properly. Your getting that code because your IMRC actuator is not holding the flaps in the closed position. It changes to OPEN somewhere above 2500 rpm (sorry I do not know exactly what rpm it changes states). Sounds like 1 of 3 things are wrong/defective; the solenoid, the actuator or one of the small vac hoses is leaking. There is also a possible wiring issue considering your custom work and car. Nice looking car!

Here is a quote from earlier in this thread:
FLAPS OPEN=the IMRC module(actuator) is in the fully extended position(this is the default mechanical position of the actuator via an internal return spring)
FLAPS CLOSED=the IMRC module(actuator) is in the fully retracted position(vacuum applied overcoming the return spring)
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Old 01-26-2014, 12:33 PM   #83
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there is no IMTV on this manifold,

there are no air leaks in the hoses,

the manifold and the actuator are new and functioning correctly, if i apply a vacuum to the diaphram it closes the flaps,

the solenoid switches correctly

the 5 volt signal is the problem
if i apply a vacuum to the diaphram at idle the voltage in the sensing wire does not change. the 5 voilt signal never changes even if i remove sensing wire pin from the PCM multiplug there is still 5 volts at the PCM.

if i measure the voltage on the sensing wire when not connected to the PCM, it fluctuates from 1 volt to 5 volts dependant upon the flap position.

while there is a constant 5 volts at the PCM pin, the operation of the flap will not be detected as irrespective of the output voltage from the flap detection circuit, there is a constant 5 volts in the circuit that should not be there.

if i unplug the actuator plug and the solenoid plug and open the harness from the plug from these to the PCM, how is 5 volts still present in the sensing wire at ignition on.

you say that the flaps should be closed until about 2500rpm, this would require the solenoid to be open during this time, how is the soenoid energized, there are only two ways this can happen, either by the PCM giving voltage, or by the PCM giving ground or both, it does this as a result of a combination of inputs from other sensors, one of which must be the actuator sensing wire.

on startup a vacuum is present in the manifold and not before, there is no resovoir of vacuum in the system between the manifold and the solenoid or between the solenoid and the actuator.

ignition on causes a power up of the solenoid, when the engine starts, vacuum is generated in the manifold and is then applied to the actuator via the open solenoid, subsiquenty closing the flaps, at this point the PCM is looking for a voltage change in the actuator sensing wire which i does not see so immediatly turns off the solenoid to default to flaps open.

are you saying that the flaps remain closed from idle to 2500 rpm in all circumstances?

i find this hard to believe, as it is clearly possible that under normal driving that the flaps will never open at all, as cruise speed is at about 2000 rpm at 60 mph.

this system is an on or off with no incremental changes in between.

the only situation when an incremental change may occure is if the flaps are commanded open below 2500 rpm but due to the throttle position at wot, manifold vacuum is insufficient to overcome the default spring in the actuator but i find this unlikely.

therfore i believe that the PCM is at fault.
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Old 01-29-2014, 06:14 PM   #84
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Sorry about the delay in response, I forgot about this thread.

It is my guess that when your 2.3 was inside the Ranger it had only IMRC. Now that you have the Ranger 2.3 in your car with a Focus 2.0 IM, that seems like a good match.

Quote:
Originally Posted by john hennessy View Post
<snip>

the 5 volt signal is the problem
if i apply a vacuum to the diaphram at idle the voltage in the sensing wire does not change. the 5 voilt signal never changes even if i remove sensing wire pin from the PCM multiplug there is still 5 volts at the PCM.

if i measure the voltage on the sensing wire when not connected to the PCM, it fluctuates from 1 volt to 5 volts dependant upon the flap position.

while there is a constant 5 volts at the PCM pin, the operation of the flap will not be detected as irrespective of the output voltage from the flap detection circuit, there is a constant 5 volts in the circuit that should not be there.

if i unplug the actuator plug and the solenoid plug and open the harness from the plug from these to the PCM, how is 5 volts still present in the sensing wire at ignition on.
You make a good argument, and it does seem like the PCM "detect" circuit is messed up. However, without any experience on this 5vdc line and without a proper wire diagram and without a "functional flow wiring diagram", I am hesitant to agree that the PCM is defective. I have a wire diagram that is from Nov 2002 and it has limited (and dated) information on the imrc. You (and I) may also be thinking too logically and the 5vdc tests you have done might be the same on a healthy system. Transistor logic and switching in a "detect" circuit can fool you if you do not know exactly what is supposed to happen (and when) on a healthy system.

I do not even have this info or wire diagram for my car, so trying to re-create the same test here is not easy. I will consider it during the next couple days. What pin number are you testing the 5vdc signal on at the Actuator connector?<might post a pic of that connector later> What pin number are you testing the 5vdc signal on at the PCM connector?



Quote:
Originally Posted by john hennessy View Post
<snip>
if i unplug the actuator plug and the solenoid plug and open the harness from the plug from these to the PCM, how is 5 volts still present in the sensing wire at ignition on.
Not exactly sure what you mean or how you did this? Are you disconnecting the harness inside the engine bay? I see what might be called C81 which is a connector between the PCM and the Actuator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by john hennessy View Post
<snip>

are you saying that the flaps remain closed from idle to 2500 rpm in all circumstances?

i find this hard to believe, as it is clearly possible that under normal driving that the flaps will never open at all, as cruise speed is at about 2000 rpm at 60 mph.
"in all circumstances?"
No. I have no idea what it does while the hood is closed. I imagine it works very similar to what it does while in Park.

"i find this hard to believe"
It is my belief that the imrc is CLOSED during most driving conditions to include "2000 rpm at 60 mph".

Do not forget the obvious. Your car is not holding the IMRC closed while at idle and that is why you have the P2004.
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Old 01-29-2014, 07:49 PM   #85
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pin 8, a white wire has 5v continuously when key on at PCM.

however, white wire to pin 8 has the correct voltage, 1 volt closed and 4.9 volts open, i know this because i cut the wire after finding 5 volts in this wire so that i could determind if it was comming from the actuator or the PCM.

this wire shold have no volts if it is unpluged from the actuator.

apart from the PCM, there is only one other place that this voltage could be comming from, that is a short in the harness, this is not the case as the wire is now outside the harness.

i might add at this point, that i am a ASE certified master mechanic with some 40 plus years of experience.

tomorrow i will look and see if alldata has a flow chart for the IMRC, i fit does i may post it here.
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Old 01-29-2014, 08:27 PM   #86
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The wire that feeds the .1 to 5v to the pcm is read by a volt meter in the pcm. The volt meter
In the pcm can go dead and set the code even though vref and ground are fine. I have seen the ground to this circuit open before and the ground was a small wire at the negative terminal on a focus. Make sure ground resistance is under .5 ohm.
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Old 01-29-2014, 11:34 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john hennessy View Post
pin 8, a white wire has 5v continuously when key on at PCM.
<snip>
My old (Nov 2002) wire diagrams have PCM pin-8 doing something else. Without a shared “same sheet of music” it becomes more difficult to help you. I have not given up, and will re-evaluate this situation and chime back in tomorrow or later. There is also the problem that you have a Ranger 2.3 and I have a 2004 Focus 2.3. Hardware and software (tune) could be an issue. BTW what year is your engine from? Also, is this an auto or stick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmzx5 View Post
The wire that feeds the .1 to 5v to the pcm is read by a volt meter in the pcm. The volt meter In the pcm can go dead and set the code even though vref and ground are fine. <snip>
I think you said that the PCM can be defective… have you seen a bad PCM do this (P2004) symptom?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmzx5 View Post
<snip> I have seen the ground to this circuit open before and the ground was a small wire at the negative terminal on a focus. Make sure ground resistance is under .5 ohm.
Yeah, poor ground (battery to car frame) is famous here in Foci-land for many different problems. There are several wires coming off the battery negative terminal that must have a clean connection to the engine, fuse box and/or car chassis.

Hey John, does the connector at the actuator look like this?



If it does look like that (or not) do pins 2 & 5 go to ground?
Do pins 3 & 4 go to the PCM? If yes, what pins on the PCM do they connect with?
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Old 02-01-2014, 12:42 AM   #88
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no it doesn't look like that, it has 3 pins , a 5 volt supply, a ground and a sensing wire.

the ground and the power wire are irrelevent if the sensing wire is cut and removed from the PCM plug but a test at the PCM plug shows 5 volts at pin 8 in the PCM plug, this voltage is not comming from anywhere except the PCM as nothing is connected to it except the PCM.

how can i make this clearer, if i remove the PCM from the vehicle and power it up as if it were connected to bat +, the ignition + and battery ground then there is 5 volts at pin 8!!

the engine is from a 2003 ranger and is manual

there is no problem with ground continuity.
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Old 02-01-2014, 09:03 AM   #89
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Just to add= The ranger 23 uses imrc only, where the foci 23 uses imrc & imtv. Just to add the escape 23 uses imtv only w/o imrc. imrc= intake manifold runner control, aka tumble flaps. imtv= intake manifold tuning valve. With both of those vacuum controlled viva vacuum actuvators vs the svt's electric motor actuvator.
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Old 02-04-2014, 12:03 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john hennessy View Post
no it doesn't look like that, it has 3 pins , a 5 volt supply, a ground and a sensing wire.
the ground and the power wire are irrelevent if the sensing wire is cut and removed from the PCM plug but a test at the PCM plug shows 5 volts at pin 8 in the PCM plug, this voltage is not comming from anywhere except the PCM as nothing is connected to it except the PCM.
how can i make this clearer, if i remove the PCM from the vehicle and power it up as if it were connected to bat +, the ignition + and battery ground then there is 5 volts at pin 8!!
the engine is from a 2003 ranger and is manual
there is no problem with ground continuity.
Based on your prior descriptions, I clearly understand what your PCM is doing. Your testing indicates PCM pin 8 (actuator position sensing wire) is stuck HIGH (5Vdc) and this seems to indicate a hardware failure of the PCM. I do not have a wire diagram for your car so I can’t confirm or identify other areas to consider. Other than a PCM failure, my only guesses are; check that all PCM ground wires are connected to ground (car chassis).

You said “it has 3 pins , a 5 volt supply, a ground and a sensing wire.”

My car (IMRC actuator plug) also has 3-pins but operates using a 12Vdc source and 12Vdc switching on the sensing wire. I did some DVM tests with the IMRC actuator plug disconnected (easy) and other tests with the IMRC actuator plug connected and each wire “back-probed” with a sewing needle. BTW, I do not have a wire diagram for my car. During these tests I disabled the IMRC by pulling off one of the vacuum hoses from the solenoid. This step is shown below using the acronym “Rem Vac”. When Rem Vac was performed, the (obvious) result was the actuator changed from CLOSED to OPEN. Here are my results;

Car key not installed. Ohms tests, ref to ground (battery neg terminal)
Pin-1 = 5.47 K ohms
Pin-2 = .8 to 1.1 okms (bouncing)
Pin-3 = 103.7 ohms

Car key ON engine OFF. Voltage tests, ref to ground (battery neg terminal)
Pin-1 = 11.7 Vdc
Pin-2 = .047 Vdc
Pin-3 = 12.6 Vdc

BACK PROBE Testing below
Pin-1 (see below)
Car key ON engine OFF = 11.9 Vdc (Actuator in OPEN position)
Car key ON engine ON = .214 Vdc (Actuator in CLOSED position)
Car key ON engine ON Rem Vac = 13.5 Vdc (Actuator in OPEN position)

Pin-2 (see below)
Car key ON engine OFF = .047 Vdc (Actuator in OPEN position)
Car key ON engine ON = .171 Vdc (Actuator in CLOSED position)
Car key ON engine ON Rem Vac = .136 Vdc (Actuator in OPEN position)

Pin-3 (see below)
Car key ON engine OFF = 12.7 Vdc (Actuator in OPEN position)
Car key ON engine ON = 14.4 Vdc (Actuator in CLOSED position)
Car key ON engine ON Rem Vac = 14.4 Vdc (Actuator in OPEN position)

Once Rem Vac was performed, I would re-connect the vac line. Once re-connected, the system does not recover… meaning the actuator would not move back to the CLOSED position. Once it fails, it stays failed until you turn off the car. I even manually pushed and held the actuator down to satisfy the PCM, but it would not recover the system. The PCM stays p1ssed off.

On your car, I believe the PCM is commanding the IMRC to shut-down via control wires to the solenoid. If you bypass the solenoid (and connect the two vac line together) your IMRC should then stay in the CLOSED position; you would still have the P2004. One option you have is to get a custom Tune, and have it edited to ignore/disable the IMRC error… and additionally get IMRC to operate normally.

I intentionally ran with my IMRC disabled (stuck OPEN) for a couple weeks and saw little or no performance changes. I also had less annoying rattling sounds from those dam tumble flaps. My car likes them always OPEN, maybe your does too?

Last edited by Marde; 02-04-2014 at 12:12 PM. Reason: deleted something dumb
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