More Info on Tumble Flap Delete - Page 5 - Focus Fanatics
Ford Focus Forum
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace



Go Back   Focus Fanatics > Ford Focus First Generation > DURATEC Performance (2003-2007)

DURATEC Performance (2003-2007) The place to chat about any Duratec 23, 23E, and 20 engine performance, tuning and exhaust related upgrades.

Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
FocusFest Ford Focus Tire & Wheels FocusFanatics Merchandise

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-08-2011, 11:31 PM   #41
AMMO-Duke
Focus Enthusiast
 
AMMO-Duke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Fan#: 84715
Location: Navarre, FL
What I Drive: 2005 Grey ZX4

Posts: 112
FF Reputation: 8 AMMO-Duke Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (1)
I just had one of those moments when the light bulb comes on.

WHAT IF?

IMRC is the name of the "SYSTEM" which includes TUMBLE FLAPS and IMTV.

Think about it...Intake Manifold Runner Control System

This would explain why the IMRC Control Module is the only data return to ECU.
This would explain why the function within the software is named IMRC
This would explain why there is only one function to control both devices
This would explain why Ford retained the IMTV tuning on the 2.0, they had no choice, it was the only way to control the tumble flaps!

I suspect that the 2.3 is controlled in the exact same manner.
I posted some questions in the ECU Tuning Forum to verify the 2.3 tuning, hopefully this will clarify.

Chew on this for a while and let me know what you think.

BTW, I am still going forward with the plan on Saturday regardless.
AMMO-Duke is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-09-2011, 10:29 PM   #42
felixthecat
Focus Fanatic
 
felixthecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Fan#: 80663
Location: Renton, WA
What I Drive: '05 Silver Sport Technologies

Posts: 7,962
FF Reputation: 52 felixthecat Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
I check my car out this afternoon= hooked up a vacum gun & the diapham is working for the IMRC & the motor has vacum at the switch. Hooked up a volt meter to the switch connector & switched the ignition on & its getting volts, so w/ that I ordered a switch= $78.00 + tax, wow! Tuesday it comes in. My doesn't run smooth w/ out that IMRC for some reason. I guess you'd have to tune for that being deleted. I don't know why thou. The Mustangs have a similiar setup & they need a tune for deleting thou's.
__________________
Introduce Mr. Torsen to the mix D23 crew- D-Tech- Sedan Revolution= #131
felixthecat is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2011, 11:32 PM   #43
badazz2010focus
Focus Fanatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Fan#: 78166
Location: jupiter, FL
What I Drive: 2010 ingot silver 2 dr 5 speed

Posts: 3,966
FF Reputation: 7 badazz2010focus Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Imtv and imrc are short for?
badazz2010focus is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2011, 12:04 AM   #44
felixthecat
Focus Fanatic
 
felixthecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Fan#: 80663
Location: Renton, WA
What I Drive: '05 Silver Sport Technologies

Posts: 7,962
FF Reputation: 52 felixthecat Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
imtv & imrc

Quote:
Originally Posted by badazz2010focus View Post
Imtv and imrc are short for?
IMTV= Intake manifold tuning valve= controls the different lenghts of intake runners on 23 motor's. IMRC= Intake manifold runner control= 20's & 23's have them= tumbler flap's
__________________
Introduce Mr. Torsen to the mix D23 crew- D-Tech- Sedan Revolution= #131
felixthecat is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2011, 08:27 AM   #45
badazz2010focus
Focus Fanatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Fan#: 78166
Location: jupiter, FL
What I Drive: 2010 ingot silver 2 dr 5 speed

Posts: 3,966
FF Reputation: 7 badazz2010focus Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
thank you :)
badazz2010focus is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2011, 10:36 AM   #46
1turbofocus
FF Affiliate
 
1turbofocus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Fan#: 1123
Location: Belmont, NC
What I Drive: 2000 ZX3 / 2002 SVT Turbocharged

Posts: 21,431
FF Reputation: 153 1turbofocus Excellent Standing Member1turbofocus Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (28)
the flaps/IMRC switch at 3200 MAX and are slightly open at start up and progressivly open more between idle and 3200

I have taken them out and just dont see a diff on the dyno , so I mostly tune for them to be full open at 2500 which is where most people drive , most cruise from 1700 to 2200 so there slightly closed

Tom
__________________
Focus-Power: Your #1 Source for Ford Focus Speed, Tuning & Performance!

Customer Support
AIM: hpdyno
Email: hpdyno@aol.com
Phone: 704-249-3745
Site: focus-power.com

Elder 1turbofocus
1turbofocus is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2011, 04:19 PM   #47
AMMO-Duke
Focus Enthusiast
 
AMMO-Duke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Fan#: 84715
Location: Navarre, FL
What I Drive: 2005 Grey ZX4

Posts: 112
FF Reputation: 8 AMMO-Duke Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (1)
Just got finished with my tumble flap verification that I spelled out in a previous post. The below information is in fact, exactly how the tumble flaps operate on my 2005 D2.0. I am not making any claims as to the operation of this system on any other vehicle.

For the purpose of this post, I will use the following wording:

FLAPS OPEN=the IMRC module(actuator) is in the fully extended position(this is the default mechanical position of the actuator via an internal return spring)
FLAPS CLOSED=the IMRC module(actuator) is in the fully retracted position(vacuum applied overcoming the return spring)

General Observations:
-The flaps open and close consistently at the same speed. It is fairly quick and I would estimate one half second from open to close and vice versa.
-The flaps NEVER pause in any position in between open or closed(remember that the actuator is controlled by the solenoid, due to the mechanical aspects of the solenoid, I am pretty sure it is impossible for the actuator/flaps to be metered in any way except fully open or closed)
-Datalog reveals that IMRC is commanded open or closed. Desired IMRC position shows as a "0" when flaps closed and a "1" when flaps open. IMRC is never commanded to do anything in between. This is what the datalog shows, it is not my opinion.
-When the ignition is turned off, the solenoid releases vacuum to the actuator and the flaps stay in the open position(mechanical default)
-Without starting the engine, when the ignition is turned on, the flaps close immediately. Question: How does this happen if the engine is not running and there is no vacuum to overcome the return spring? Answer: We know there is a one way valve built into the intake manifold. Apparently, there is also a small vacuum chamber built in for the purpose of storing vacuum to close the flaps during engine start. This proves that I was previously incorrect in thinking that the engine started with the flaps open. They are in fact, closed during start-up. This is assuming that you have no vacuum leak in this system. (You can observe this if you still have this system operational on your vehicle. Without starting your engine, turn your ignition on and you will observe the flaps close. Now, turn your ignition off and the solenoid releases vacuum to the actuator allowing the flaps to open. If you do this a couple of times without starting the engine, the vacuum in the chamber will be depleted and the flaps will not close again until you start the engine and vacuum is restored)(assuming your system works the same as mine).
-Even though the mechanical default of the actuator is flaps open, once the ignition is turned on, the ECU defaults the flaps to closed. The flaps remain closed during engine start and engine run. The flaps do not open until commanded by ECU.
-So when do the flaps open? Datalog and visual verification of actuator reveals that highest RPM that the flaps open is approx 3,200 RPM at low throttle position. The lowest RPM I observed was flaps open was at 1,100 PRM at a higher throttle position. I datalogged and observed the flaps open/close at various RPM in between 1,100 and 3,200 depending on throttle position. NOTE: IMRC activation is a function of RPM vs. Throttle position in the ECU. The flaps open when these parameters are met and close again when RPM's drop again. They never just stay open. They are always closed at idle regardless of operating temp.

Configuration #1: ECU returned to stock
-I observed the flaps open/close as described above
-Datalog revealed the flaps open/close and matched perfectly with actual operation

Configuartion #2: 93 Octane tune with IMRC still active
-Observations were exactly the same as configuration #1
-Datalog exactly the same as configuration #1

Configuration #3: 93 Octane tune with IMRC de-activated
-When ignition is turned on, flaps close and remain closed at all times regardless of conditions (this seems a little weird, but remember that the ECU default position for the flaps is closed when ignition is on).
-Aside from being closed, the flaps are completely non-functional
-Datalog reveals no functioning of IMRC
NOTE: This is significant because if you de-activated IMRC and still physically had tumble flaps hooked up, they would never open during engine operation.(assuming your system works the same as mine)

If anyone has any questions, please ask. I don't want any confusion as to what is going on here.

S0C0nFused, I will PM you the results of my Pin check. I dont know what to think of the results, so I dont want to publicly post that info.

I guess the next step is determining what all of this means. But my brain is fried now and I am going to have a drink or four.

Daryl
AMMO-Duke is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2011, 08:29 PM   #48
felixthecat
Focus Fanatic
 
felixthecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Fan#: 80663
Location: Renton, WA
What I Drive: '05 Silver Sport Technologies

Posts: 7,962
FF Reputation: 52 felixthecat Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Great info Daryl^^^ From what I come up w/ is the tumbers deflect air towards the injector's for better mixing or swirling under light throttle/ hi vacuum conditions.
__________________
Introduce Mr. Torsen to the mix D23 crew- D-Tech- Sedan Revolution= #131
felixthecat is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2011, 08:46 PM   #49
AMMO-Duke
Focus Enthusiast
 
AMMO-Duke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Fan#: 84715
Location: Navarre, FL
What I Drive: 2005 Grey ZX4

Posts: 112
FF Reputation: 8 AMMO-Duke Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (1)
Quote:
Great info Daryl
Thanks, I hope all of this does some good. We may never come to a consensus as to what a person should do, delete or not delete. But at least we will better understand the system so we can make our own decisions.

Quote:
From what I come up w/ is the tumbers deflect air towards the injector's for better mixing or swirling under light throttle/ hi vacuum conditions
I think thats a great way to put it!
AMMO-Duke is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2011, 01:52 AM   #50
S0C0nFused
Focus Fanatic
 
S0C0nFused's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Fan#: 39405
Location: Saint Louis, MO
What I Drive: 2007 TorD-Red ZX5 SES

Posts: 3,351
FF Reputation: 77 S0C0nFused Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
"S0C0nFused, I will PM you the results of my Pin check"
I have replied.
"Without starting your engine, turn your ignition on and you will observe the flaps close. Now, turn your ignition off and the solenoid releases vacuum to the actuator allowing the flaps to open. If you do this a couple of times without starting the engine, the vacuum in the chamber will be depleted and the flaps will not close again until you start the engine and vacuum is restored"
You actually did this correct?
__________________
Steeda SRI w/CAI intake. Trubendz SS 2.5" . FR Susp/Struts. Tune by Tom (FocusPower). Rota Grids. SAP rear spoiler. Custom front air dam, rocker panel bits and Rear valance.
Last of the Hatches #28
S0C0nFused is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks & Social Networks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:10 AM.


Copyright 2002-2014 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : Terms of Use : Privacy Policy : Advertise Information : Site Map

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Acura TLX or Fiesta ST. You can find all Ford Focus and Focus ST related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area.