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Old 03-08-2013, 06:06 PM   #801
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Originally Posted by Bombadil View Post
Oak Ridge National Laboratory conducted a study on ethanol blended gasoline. The results were published in 2009. They used 16 different vehicles and tested at multiple sites (different elevations). Their summary findings were as follows:

Vs E0 gasoline

E10 was -3.68% with a plus/minus of 0.44%
E15 was -5.34% plus/minus 0.53%
E20 was -7.71% plus/minus 0.88%

That is, they found a predictable and linear correlation between the measured BTU content of the fuel and the real life measured gas mileage. None of the cars got better mileage with E10.

They also found statistically significant reductions in CO2 emissions from ethanol blends. CO2 dropped by 12% to 15%.
This makes absolute sense and is consistent with my experience. Thanks for posting.
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:14 PM   #802
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AZ, here's more

John Deere recently released their new, ZTrak Z925M, zero-turn, Flex Fuel Commercial Mowers, capable of running on ethanol blends up to E85 (85 percent ethanol, 15 percent gasoline). When you stop to think about it, it makes perfect sense. Ethanol blends are powering nearly every vehicle on the road today with blends of ethanol from 10% to 85%, so it was only a matter of time before we mowed with high octane E85 too.

http://corncommentary.com/2013/03/07...ot-more-green/
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:28 PM   #803
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AZ, I was just sticking up for ethanol on my favorite airplane forum and had to prove something to myself before I posted.
So has the FAA changed their mind on ethanol or is it still prohibited in STC'd planes for Mo Gas. I haven't flown since moving to AZ, but a couple of years ago some friends of mine were having a hard time finding non-ethanol contaminated fuel for use in their STC'd planes, thus eliminating the $3+ a gallon option and leaving them with the $5-7+ dollar a gallon 100LL Avgas only option. Just another benefit of the corn grower/ethanol producer lobby forcing blends other than E85 on everyone and pushing for the elimination of E0.
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:58 PM   #804
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Thanks Moderator, for your quick response.
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:59 PM   #805
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Old 03-09-2013, 12:22 AM   #806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bombadil View Post
Oak Ridge National Laboratory conducted a study on ethanol blended gasoline. The results were published in 2009. They used 16 different vehicles and tested at multiple sites (different elevations). Their summary findings were as follows:

Vs E0 gasoline

E10 was -3.68% with a plus/minus of 0.44%
E15 was -5.34% plus/minus 0.53%
E20 was -7.71% plus/minus 0.88%

That is, they found a predictable and linear correlation between the measured BTU content of the fuel and the real life measured gas mileage. None of the cars got better mileage with E10.

They also found statistically significant reductions in CO2 emissions from ethanol blends. CO2 dropped by 12% to 15%.
I suspect this study was done for/by the corn grower/ethanol producer lobby. My own research with five vehicles over four years has shown me E10 yields a 8-10% reduction in MPG. I don't need a biased third party to tell me something contrary to what I have already proven to myself to be true. I would also suspect the CO2 reductions are grossly overstated.
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Old 03-09-2013, 12:56 AM   #807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZfocus2012 View Post
I suspect this study was done for/by the corn grower/ethanol producer lobby. My own research with five vehicles over four years has shown me E10 yields a 8-10% reduction in MPG. I don't need a biased third party to tell me something contrary to what I have already proven to myself to be true. I would also suspect the CO2 reductions are grossly overstated.

I don't think you read that right. -7% means a reduction in MPG. The more ethanol the gas has, the more loss in MPG. The carbon reduction is true, but the CO2 amounts are already very very small, so a 15% isn't much on such a small scale.
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:34 AM   #808
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Quote:
I suspect this study was done for/by the corn grower/ethanol producer lobby. My own research with five vehicles over four years has shown me E10 yields a 8-10% reduction in MPG. I don't need a biased third party to tell me something contrary to what I have already proven to myself to be true. I would also suspect the CO2 reductions are grossly overstated.
AZ, Was the gasoline portion of the E10 you burned the same as the E0 in your experiment? I'm sure to make sure your experiment was accurate you did analyze the composition of the gasoline to make sure it was apples to apples. On the airplane forum a guy was complaining about RIN's.
P.S. Do you think my dad happened to buy a chain saw that was made for Brazil since E10 doesn't seem to be hurting it one bit?
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Old 03-09-2013, 09:38 AM   #809
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AZ, Was the gasoline portion of the E10 you burned the same as the E0 in your experiment? I'm sure to make sure your experiment was accurate you did analyze the composition of the gasoline to make sure it was apples to apples.
My experiment was done "Real World" style. You take gas from pumps marked E10 and gas from pumps that are ethanol free and you note the results. I did it enough to form my previous conclusion. See, when you break it down "Laboratory" style, as you suggest, that is where you can introduce all the variables that don't matter and or exist in the "Real World" and thus you can get what ever results the person paying for the study desires. That is just how the world of paid statistical analysis works, and all independent statistical analysis is paid for by someone.
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Old 03-09-2013, 01:41 PM   #810
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZfocus2012 View Post
My experiment was done "Real World" style. You take gas from pumps marked E10 and gas from pumps that are ethanol free and you note the results. I did it enough to form my previous conclusion. See, when you break it down "Laboratory" style, as you suggest, that is where you can introduce all the variables that don't matter and or exist in the "Real World" and thus you can get what ever results the person paying for the study desires. That is just how the world of paid statistical analysis works, and all independent statistical analysis is paid for by someone.
The cool thing about scientific papers is that they are published in peer reviewed journals and have to state their funding. ORNL performs research for the US Department of Energy, in which case lobbying is illegal. Your ignorance is astounding, you're upset because you found 8-10% reduction when a lab found 3%?
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