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Old 12-03-2011, 12:18 PM   #11
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[QUOTE=Bradm;3916048]Can't have it both ways. Either the heavier weight offers more protection by staying with a part longer and retaining more heat or it does not offer any additional protection because it leaves the part as quickly.
[QUOTE]

Oil is used for 2 things to lube and to cool , I dont care if the oil stays on the part as long as it does its job (lube / cool), the heavier oil is to take the higher loads / heat from the added HP and rpm not to stick to the parts for a longer time

Drain 30wt at 200 deg and 50wt at 200 deg and it will drain at the same amount of time both at that temp are thin it isnt the thickness of a higher wt oil its the protection from the load , heat , rpm and the oil braking down

Tom
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Old 12-03-2011, 02:09 PM   #12
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Oil vicosity by definiton is the resistance to flow at a given temp. Heavier weights flow slower, lighter weights faster at the same temp. Period. You may decide to redefine it as you see fit but it does not change the physics of the situation.
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Old 12-03-2011, 03:32 PM   #13
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I am not trying to change anything , you keep saying , oil staying on the parts "staying on the valve components for too long of a period versus a lighter weight moving off the components quicker. " Makes what your saying sound like there is tons of oil with the 40wt and hardly any with the 20 and in fact you couldnt measure the diff even at idle with a michrometer

Were splitting hairs , if you dyno an engine the same with the same RPM and same temp 20wt and a 40wt will make the same power , the engine will have no more resistance because of the heavier oil then the lighter

The counterweights passing through a 40wt and a 20wt will be non measurable at temps

"Oil vicosity by definiton is the resistance to flow at a given temp. Heavier weights flow slower, lighter weights faster at the same temp. Period."
EXACTLY heavier oils FLOW slower so they absorb more heat and carry it away from the loaded parts (bearings mostly) as well as lubricate better , again the oil is there to remove heat and lube

Tom
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Old 12-03-2011, 04:32 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradm View Post
Oil vicosity by definiton is the resistance to flow at a given temp. Heavier weights flow slower, lighter weights faster at the same temp. Period. You may decide to redefine it as you see fit but it does not change the physics of the situation.
Yup agree.
All those letters and stuff after the weight are what comment on the ability to resist breakdown under load on bearings and stuff.

IMO the higher oil weight for hard running is 'old timey' advice from the good old days. (the 1950s, 1960s...)

Current Corvette motors use 5W30 They make way more horsepower than any of your Foci'...

Move into the modern world.
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Old 12-03-2011, 04:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
I am not trying to change anything , you keep saying , oil staying on the parts "staying on the valve components for too long of a period versus a lighter weight moving off the components quicker. " Makes what your saying sound like there is tons of oil with the 40wt and hardly any with the 20 and in fact you couldnt measure the diff even at idle with a michrometer

Were splitting hairs , if you dyno an engine the same with the same RPM and same temp 20wt and a 40wt will make the same power , the engine will have no more resistance because of the heavier oil then the lighter

The counterweights passing through a 40wt and a 20wt will be non measurable at temps

"Oil vicosity by definiton is the resistance to flow at a given temp. Heavier weights flow slower, lighter weights faster at the same temp. Period."
EXACTLY heavier oils FLOW slower so they absorb more heat and carry it away from the loaded parts (bearings mostly) as well as lubricate better , again the oil is there to remove heat and lube

Tom
Damn good point, im going to start using a higher wt!
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Old 12-03-2011, 06:12 PM   #16
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It the splitting of hairs that make a difference in power. It was stated that a crank passing through two different weights would have no difference in power production. That again flies in the face of physics, fluid dynamics to be specific. The less vicous the less energy required to rotate a mass.

First I'm corrected that oils of differing weights flow the same at the same temp and then told that isn't the case, that actually we were making the same point. And originally that what I was working from a less than accurate basis.

I have to say BS.

Want to ignore the science, redefine the terms and adapt to the contrary statements to save face? Is that the discussion I was just involved in?

Waste of my time. Somehow reminds of a thread where a swaying vehicle was fixed by not working with torsional forces.

Waste of time dealing with Luddites.
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Old 12-03-2011, 07:16 PM   #17
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So would 10w-30 non syn, be okay for a D23 with just a exhaust and a CAI?

118k on the motor, and I just put the Exedy fly/clutch kit in.

And I'm going into winter here in CT?

My only concern here is that, isn't that going to be too thick, and take too long to thin out in the winter, therefore causing a higher PSI, and possibly causing damage to the seals? I have 10W-30 in there right now, and on a cold start from a well insulated garage it reads 105PSI on my oil pressure gauge.

Usually with 5w-20, on a cold start it sits around 90PSI at best, and then usually thins out enough to get it down to 50PSI, and then when idling after a good good run, she sits around 20psi, sometimes a little lower.

This is what I put in for engine oil> 10w-30 Castrol GTX.


If anything, would it be a good idea to run 5w-20 through winter, then in the spring & summer run 5w-30?
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Old 12-03-2011, 08:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizabeth View Post
Yup agree.
All those letters and stuff after the weight are what comment on the ability to resist breakdown under load on bearings and stuff.

IMO the higher oil weight for hard running is 'old timey' advice from the good old days. (the 1950s, 1960s...)

Current Corvette motors use 5W30 They make way more horsepower than any of your Foci'...

Move into the modern world.
You do know that new vetts also use a dry sump oil pump which changes everything , they could run 10wt oil in that engine and live even with the high loads of the SC , dry sumps change everything

I am curious how many engines you have built both race and stock to make the wild claims your making ? Move into the modern world
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Old 12-03-2011, 08:14 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradm View Post
It the splitting of hairs that make a difference in power. It was stated that a crank passing through two different weights would have no difference in power production. That again flies in the face of physics, fluid dynamics to be specific. The less vicous the less energy required to rotate a mass.

First I'm corrected that oils of differing weights flow the same at the same temp and then told that isn't the case, that actually we were making the same point. And originally that what I was working from a less than accurate basis.

I have to say BS.

Want to ignore the science, redefine the terms and adapt to the contrary statements to save face? Is that the discussion I was just involved in?

Waste of my time. Somehow reminds of a thread where a swaying vehicle was fixed by not working with torsional forces.

Waste of time dealing with Luddites.
So your saying that I could drain 2 oils at 200 deg and you could tell me the 40wt from the 20wt ?
NO!

Your telling me that on a dyno that the same engine with 20wt will make less HP then the engine with 40wt ?
NO!

Your telling me that you can measure the thickness of an oil on a part at 200 deg and tell me if it is 20wt or 40wt ?
NO!

Because basically thats all I have said all along , How many engines have you tried these on and how many Hrs have you spent on a dyno ?

Tom
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Old 12-03-2011, 08:21 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djzx3 View Post
So would 10w-30 non syn, be okay for a D23 with just a exhaust and a CAI?

118k on the motor, and I just put the Exedy fly/clutch kit in.

And I'm going into winter here in CT?

My only concern here is that, isn't that going to be too thick, and take too long to thin out in the winter, therefore causing a higher PSI, and possibly causing damage to the seals? I have 10W-30 in there right now, and on a cold start from a well insulated garage it reads 105PSI on my oil pressure gauge.

Usually with 5w-20, on a cold start it sits around 90PSI at best, and then usually thins out enough to get it down to 50PSI, and then when idling after a good good run, she sits around 20psi, sometimes a little lower.

If anything, would it be a good idea to run 5w-20 through winter, then in the spring & summer run 5w-30?
What seals are you going to blow? There are no seals on the duratec I can think of that hold back the oil psi

I have said all along that I run 50wt in the summer and 40 in the winter as you dont create as much heat in the winter when running it hard but the load is still there

If it gets below freezing there for many days and stays there then run the 20 if it makes you feel better , my opinion is the 30 will be fine and give it about 4-5 min to warm up and go which people should be doing anyway

Tom
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