DCT / PowerShift Transmission Update TSB Thread - Page 59 - Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum
Ford Focus Forum
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace


Go Back   Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum > Ford Focus Third Generation > MK3 TSB, Recall & Problems Archive

MK3 TSB, Recall & Problems Archive The place to chat about TSB and Known Issues for the 2012 Focus.

Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
Ford Focus Tire & Wheels FocusFanatics Merchandise

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-16-2012, 03:28 PM   #581
dan50
Focus Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Fan#: 91789
Location: Too much info, IL
What I Drive: 2012 SEL White Platinum 5 Dr 302A

Posts: 1,162
Points 2,772, Level 32
Points: 2,772, Level: 32 Points: 2,772, Level: 32 Points: 2,772, Level: 32
Level Up 15% Completed
Level up: 15% Level up: 15% Level up: 15%
Forum Activity 1%
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
FF Reputation: 11 dan50 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kam327 View Post
"According to Fuely.com, overall economy for the 2012 Focus is essentially the same as for the Corolla. Considering the Focus is almost a different class of car from the Corolla, is more substantial, faster, etc., this is an accomplishment."

Yes the Focus is 0.7 sec quicker to 60 and 0.4 sec quicker in the quarter mile according to CR and still gets roughly equal economy according to fuelly users, but 12% less economy according to what I assume to be the more standardized testing of CR. The vast majority of folks aren't driving their Foci to the limits like that on a daily basis though. I bought mine for the balance of economy and comfort / handling, which I got but the DCT detracts from that experience.

Again, I still don't see good evidence of the DCT providing "class leading fuel economy". It can't match the Elantra's economy at 70mph even with the addition of the grille shutters and low resistance tires (according to PM).
Regarding fuel economy at 70, both the DCT and the Elantra's automatic with a lock-up torque converter have a direct connection between engine and drive wheels at that speed, so there shouldn't be fuel economy differences attributable to type of transmission.

Hyundais are notorious for not meeting their EPA estimates, but any difference vs. the Focus at highway speed is not a function of the DCT
dan50 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-16-2012, 03:33 PM   #582
kam327
-----<M>-----
 
kam327's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Fan#: 94700
Location: Tampa, FL
What I Drive: '14 Ruby Ti w/ Handling Pkg

Posts: 2,379
Points 5,219, Level 46
Points: 5,219, Level: 46 Points: 5,219, Level: 46 Points: 5,219, Level: 46
Level Up 35% Completed
Level up: 35% Level up: 35% Level up: 35%
Forum Activity 2%
Activity: 2% Activity: 2% Activity: 2%
FF Reputation: 11 kam327 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan50 View Post
Regarding fuel economy at 70, both the DCT and the Elantra's automatic with a lock-up torque converter have a direct connection between engine and drive wheels at that speed, so there shouldn't be fuel economy differences attributable to type of transmission.

Hyundais are notorious for not meeting their EPA estimates, but any difference vs. the Focus at highway speed is not a function of the DCT
Dan50, not sure I understand your point. Please elaborate. If the Focus's tranny is supposed to be ~10% more efficient than the Elantra's conventional auto, the Focus has direct injection and variable valve timing, the car's weights are the same and Cd can't be too far apart, why shouldn't the Focus blow the Elantra away in economy? The point being that if Ford chose the DCT strictly for increased fuel economy, we aren't seeing the benefit in real world driving.
kam327 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2012, 03:39 PM   #583
TDiGuy
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Fan#: 93343
Location: Orlando, FL
What I Drive: 2012, Candy Blue, Focus Titanium

Posts: 85
FF Reputation: 1 TDiGuy Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
The difference between the Elantra's transmission and the DCT is the Torque converter as you have already said. There is another difference too and that's the fact that a Torque converter must have transmission fluid which creates added drag on the drive line.

Looking at Fuelly right now and the average economy of a 2012 Elantra is only 30.8. I don't know who to believe but I tend not to trust CR on this issue. http://www.fuelly.com/car/hyundai/elantra/gas - actual data from hundreds of owners.
TDiGuy is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2012, 03:42 PM   #584
kam327
-----<M>-----
 
kam327's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Fan#: 94700
Location: Tampa, FL
What I Drive: '14 Ruby Ti w/ Handling Pkg

Posts: 2,379
Points 5,219, Level 46
Points: 5,219, Level: 46 Points: 5,219, Level: 46 Points: 5,219, Level: 46
Level Up 35% Completed
Level up: 35% Level up: 35% Level up: 35%
Forum Activity 2%
Activity: 2% Activity: 2% Activity: 2%
FF Reputation: 11 kam327 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kam327 View Post
Dan50, not sure I understand your point. Please elaborate. If the Focus's tranny is supposed to be ~10% more efficient than the Elantra's conventional auto, the Focus has direct injection and variable valve timing, the car's weights are the same and Cd can't be too far apart, why shouldn't the Focus blow the Elantra away in economy? The point being that if Ford chose the DCT strictly for increased fuel economy, we aren't seeing the benefit in real world driving.
Dan50, never mind I get it, at highway speed the torque converter locks up and the usual hydraulic efficiency losses are reduced / minimized.

But the Elantra, Corolla etc. still seem to be just as efficient in overall combined driving according to user inputs on fuelly, fueleconomy.gov, etc. Just not seein' the tangible benefit of the DCT.....
kam327 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2012, 03:44 PM   #585
kam327
-----<M>-----
 
kam327's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Fan#: 94700
Location: Tampa, FL
What I Drive: '14 Ruby Ti w/ Handling Pkg

Posts: 2,379
Points 5,219, Level 46
Points: 5,219, Level: 46 Points: 5,219, Level: 46 Points: 5,219, Level: 46
Level Up 35% Completed
Level up: 35% Level up: 35% Level up: 35%
Forum Activity 2%
Activity: 2% Activity: 2% Activity: 2%
FF Reputation: 11 kam327 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TDiGuy View Post
The difference between the Elantra's transmission and the DCT is the Torque converter as you have already said. There is another difference too and that's the fact that a Torque converter must have transmission fluid which creates added drag on the drive line.

Looking at Fuelly right now and the average economy of a 2012 Elantra is only 30.8. I don't know who to believe but I tend not to trust CR on this issue. http://www.fuelly.com/car/hyundai/elantra/gas - actual data from hundreds of owners.
Yeah, the Focus's average is also 30.8.
kam327 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2012, 03:49 PM   #586
TDiGuy
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Fan#: 93343
Location: Orlando, FL
What I Drive: 2012, Candy Blue, Focus Titanium

Posts: 85
FF Reputation: 1 TDiGuy Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan50 View Post
Regarding fuel economy at 70, both the DCT and the Elantra's automatic with a lock-up torque converter have a direct connection between engine and drive wheels at that speed, so there shouldn't be fuel economy differences attributable to type of transmission.

Hyundais are notorious for not meeting their EPA estimates, but any difference vs. the Focus at highway speed is not a function of the DCT
DCT = smaller, lighter weight, less power required from the engine to operate, no fluid to change, no power lost through a torque converter, fewer internal parts etc.
TDiGuy is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2012, 03:56 PM   #587
kam327
-----<M>-----
 
kam327's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Fan#: 94700
Location: Tampa, FL
What I Drive: '14 Ruby Ti w/ Handling Pkg

Posts: 2,379
Points 5,219, Level 46
Points: 5,219, Level: 46 Points: 5,219, Level: 46 Points: 5,219, Level: 46
Level Up 35% Completed
Level up: 35% Level up: 35% Level up: 35%
Forum Activity 2%
Activity: 2% Activity: 2% Activity: 2%
FF Reputation: 11 kam327 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TDiGuy View Post
DCT = smaller, lighter weight, less power required from the engine to operate, no fluid to change, no power lost through a torque converter, fewer internal parts etc.
Exactly. Should result in better fuel economy all else being roughly equal.

This graphic from Popular Mechanics says it all for me. Very scientific comparison between the two cars. Lbs/hp is roughly equal, we can probably assume the drag coefficients and tire resistance are roughly equal if not favoring the Focus slightly. The Focus had the added benefit of the active grill shutters. The Focus engine has fuel saving technology (DI, VVT), not sure what the Elantra has. So with the DCT, where is the tangible economy benefit touted by Ford?

kam327 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2012, 03:58 PM   #588
TDiGuy
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Fan#: 93343
Location: Orlando, FL
What I Drive: 2012, Candy Blue, Focus Titanium

Posts: 85
FF Reputation: 1 TDiGuy Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
According fuelly the Elantra averages 30.8. Where are the huge gains you keep referring to that give it the supposed advantage?
TDiGuy is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2012, 04:06 PM   #589
TDiGuy
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Fan#: 93343
Location: Orlando, FL
What I Drive: 2012, Candy Blue, Focus Titanium

Posts: 85
FF Reputation: 1 TDiGuy Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
I think it's quite an achievement for ford to get this type of fuel economy from a larger more powerful engine
TDiGuy is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2012, 04:06 PM   #590
kam327
-----<M>-----
 
kam327's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Fan#: 94700
Location: Tampa, FL
What I Drive: '14 Ruby Ti w/ Handling Pkg

Posts: 2,379
Points 5,219, Level 46
Points: 5,219, Level: 46 Points: 5,219, Level: 46 Points: 5,219, Level: 46
Level Up 35% Completed
Level up: 35% Level up: 35% Level up: 35%
Forum Activity 2%
Activity: 2% Activity: 2% Activity: 2%
FF Reputation: 11 kam327 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TDiGuy View Post
According fuelly the Elantra averages 30.8. Where are the huge gains you keep referring to that give it the supposed advantage?
The Popular Mechanics graphic below - 70mph cruise - Elantra 39.3mpg / Focus 33.5mpg.

Actually I didn't say the Elantra had a huge advantage over Focus (at least don't think so), I was wondering why the Focus doesn't have a noticeable advantage over the Elantra (and others) given it's advanced, efficient drivetrain.
kam327 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks & Social Networks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:53 AM.


Copyright 2002-2014 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : Terms of Use : Privacy Policy : Advertise Information

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Acura TLX or Fiesta ST. You can find all Ford Focus and Focus ST related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area.