2012 Titanium Front Strut Low Speed Noise (Clunk/Rattle) - Page 149 - Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:24 AM   #1481
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Good work Zillon!!
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:33 AM   #1482
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No, the OEM bolts are 10.9 bolts.

What seems to be the case, is that the torque spec on the strut mount hardware is hyper-critical. A M8x1.25 grade 10.9 bolt has a torque rating of only 22-27 ft-lbs. That is why these are one-time use fasteners - they are designed to be torqued once and only once to 25 ft-lbs. If they are over-torqued, they stretch, which might induce clunking.

If anything, Ford should have gone with a bigger bolt. A M10 grade 10.9 bolt has a much higher torque rating at 45-53 ft-lbs.

Alas, I have no scientific proof just yet. I'll know more later today.
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:10 AM   #1483
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Zillon, thanks for all you're doing. I was about to re-torque mine this morning and figured I should check for new developments. Good thing I did. I'm willing to try a fix since it doesn't seem like Ford is doing anything about this. If it's a case of bad/wrong bolts or torque specs then it seems like they aren't looking to hard for a solution or they would have found this by now.

By the way, mine isn't listed as having the handling package.
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:27 AM   #1484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zillon View Post
No, the OEM bolts are 10.9 bolts.

What seems to be the case, is that the torque spec on the strut mount hardware is hyper-critical. A M8x1.25 grade 10.9 bolt has a torque rating of only 22-27 ft-lbs. That is why these are one-time use fasteners - they are designed to be torqued once and only once to 25 ft-lbs. If they are over-torqued, they stretch, which might induce clunking.

If anything, Ford should have gone with a bigger bolt. A M10 grade 10.9 bolt has a much higher torque rating at 45-53 ft-lbs.

Alas, I have no scientific proof just yet. I'll know more later today.
cool beans, man let us know , I don't know why thye would go with such a small bolt for a critical area
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:15 PM   #1485
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So what your saying is Ford is puttin Sub-Par Bolt in our cars and giving us these issues... I HOPE YOU ARE LISTENING FORD.... we need to get them to upgrade all of our cars to the Grade 10.9 ASAP.
Why are you saying Ford is using sub par bolts? When you exceed the factory torque specs. you are playing with fire, plain and simple.
Nothing wrong with backyard engineering as long as you follow some simple rules.
In the end if there is a fix for this problem it will be something entirely unrelated to the strut mounting bolts.
FYI the Mustang struts are held in place with 8mm studs and nuts, are torqued to 25 foot pounds and do not have issues.
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:58 PM   #1486
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Why are you saying Ford is using sub par bolts? When you exceed the factory torque specs. you are playing with fire, plain and simple.
Nothing wrong with backyard engineering as long as you follow some simple rules.
In the end if there is a fix for this problem it will be something entirely unrelated to the strut mounting bolts.
FYI the Mustang struts are held in place with 8mm studs and nuts, are torqued to 25 foot pounds and do not have issues.
not subpar in that sense, but in the sense that if we should use stronger bolts and torqued to a better value for the design. I have seen larger vehicles with smaller bolts and smaller ones with larger, it depends on the strain/torsion in location we are talking about. also are the upper strut (bearing) mounts hard rubber or plastic... or are they Metal on the Mustang?
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:00 PM   #1487
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Why are you saying Ford is using sub par bolts? When you exceed the factory torque specs. you are playing with fire, plain and simple.
Nothing wrong with backyard engineering as long as you follow some simple rules.
In the end if there is a fix for this problem it will be something entirely unrelated to the strut mounting bolts.
FYI the Mustang struts are held in place with 8mm studs and nuts, are torqued to 25 foot pounds and do not have issues.
I think that what should be taken out of Mikes statement is the frustration that he, I, and many others are feeling with this situation. My car has had the clunk from day one, to some degree or another, and now has over 10k miles. It's difficult for people like myself to try and maintain a positive attitude when Ford only appears to be gathering data while frustrated owners throw everything at the car in an attempt to locate the issue and find a fix.

That being said, I wouldn't discount the strut mounting bolts or any other part of the front suspension. Something in there is wrong, whether it be wrong parts, incorrect torques, misalignment...we don't really know for sure. What I do know is that Zack is one of the only people investing his time and money into trying to come up with a solution, and he's doing it in a manner that is honest and up-front. Granted, whatever works for his car may not work for all, but it will work for some and hopefully resolve some of our members' anger and frustration.

Then, just like the '13 model offerings, Ford will take our free labor and testing and incorporate it (hopefully) into a fix.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:19 PM   #1488
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Well, I had originally intended to go with grade 10.9 M8x1.25x30 flange bolts, but Lowes' website lies. Instead, I picked up grade 12.9 hex cap head bolts, which have a max torque rating of 33 ft-lbs; this is more in line with my plans, and they should resist shearing better than the OEM bolts.

Additionally I'll be cutting the heads of the OEM bolts off to salvage the spacers, and drilling them out 1mm to fit over the 8mm bolt threads.

I'll keep you guys updated.
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:59 PM   #1489
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Quote:
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Well, I had originally intended to go with grade 10.9 M8x1.25x30 flange bolts, but Lowes' website lies. Instead, I picked up grade 12.9 hex cap head bolts, which have a max torque rating of 33 ft-lbs; this is more in line with my plans, and they should resist shearing better than the OEM bolts.

Additionally I'll be cutting the heads of the OEM bolts off to salvage the spacers, and drilling them out 1mm to fit over the 8mm bolt threads.

I'll keep you guys updated.
Thanks for being awesome! I'm just happy you found the 12.9 grade bolts. I guess I'll hold off on buying any mounts to play around with.
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:40 PM   #1490
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Well, preliminary verdict is that this works, and it's safe.

I cut the heads off of the factory bolts to salvage the spacers and drill them out to fit the 12.9 grade bolts.

I ended up using a 5/16" carbide bit, with a second person dripping cutting oil around the bit, to drill them out. The spacers are hardened, so beware. They will take some work to ream out to the right size.



That's the final setup. I torqued them to 35 ft-lbs, and used a bit of anti-seize between the spacer and the bolt, to inhibit corrosion. I did not use anti-seize on the threads.

The only issue I seem to have is a little bit of groaning from the left front, but I think it's because I need to re-align the struts in the towers, which I'll do at work tomorrow.
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