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Old 10-15-2012, 08:56 AM   #1631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimsFocus View Post
I was not inferring that the software was somehow faulty. The problems I see are:
1. Inadequate dealer/customer communication of issues.
2. Owners who are confused by the initial DCT performance and feather the gas, in effect, programming the DCT to shift poorly.
3. Dealer service technicians who have no idea as to how to program the DCT.

I don't see any explaination in your list for leaking seals, burnt clutches or bad throwout bearings.
They are in a different category. Shifting issues are Performance. The issues you list are Defects. Defects can't be corrected by software reprogramming.
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:09 AM   #1632
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Do the service tech's actually change parameters in the software or do they just update the program to the new revision? Allowing them to change the internal engineered settings seems to be allowing to much error to be installed.
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:22 AM   #1633
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Do the service tech's actually change parameters in the software or do they just update the program to the new revision? Allowing them to change the internal engineered settings seems to be allowing to much error to be installed.
As far as I know I service techs just reset the system. But in theory the DCT can be programmed to shift any way you want it to. I haven't checked but I would bet money that there are hacks out there that one can buy just like performance chips that will really juice DCTs. Anyone seen them yet?
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:57 AM   #1634
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Originally Posted by Linchpin View Post
They are in a different category. Shifting issues are Performance. The issues you list are Defects. Defects can't be corrected by software reprogramming.
Sorry, I disagree with that being a "different category" as you point out. I (we, as in the majority of the people posting in this thread) did in fact have "shifting issues", which originally were told by the dealer were merely "programming" and quotes like "you're not driving it properly, or, you need to give the TCU time to learn your driving style".... and in a lot the cases (mine own included), it turned out to be a physical issue, in that the seals were bad and contaminated the clutches. Yes, that is a "defect", BUT, driving it did not display a "defect", but, rather poor (and noisey) shifting performance. Of course "defects" can't be corrected by software, but, saying that a lot of the issues are technicians not properly programming the DCT or poor initial communication from dealer to consumer is pre mature, given the amount of "bad" clutches we are now starting to see (and I believe we will see LOTS more as dealerships eventually open up the transmissions and investigate this more).
Those that have had the new clutches and seals installed are once again, very happy with the performance (much like we all were when test driving the new car).
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:16 AM   #1635
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[QUOTE=pozi240;4405974]Sorry, I disagree with that being a "different category" as you point out. I (we, as in the majority of the people posting in this thread) did in fact have "shifting issues", which originally were told by the dealer were merely "programming" and quotes like "you're not driving it properly, or, you need to give the TCU time to learn your driving style".... and in a lot the cases (mine own included), it turned out to be a physical issue, in that the seals were bad and contaminated the clutches. Yes, that is a "defect", BUT, driving it did not display a "defect", but, rather poor (and noisey) shifting performance. Of course "defects" can't be corrected by software, but, saying that a lot of the issues are technicians not properly programming the DCT or poor initial communication from dealer to consumer is pre mature, given the amount of "bad" clutches we are now starting to see (and I believe we will see LOTS more as dealerships eventually open up the transmissions and investigate this more).
Those that have had the new clutches and seals installed are once again, very happy with the performance (much like we all were when test driving the new car).[/QUOTE

The entire issue goes back to an inability to trouble shoot. Two of my relatives are retired mechanics. I was Ford trained tune-up technician. I am also an elite problem-solver. This is what I have make my living at.

DCT issues are complicated by the software component which can cause symptoms identical to mechanical problems, ergo - failed seals etc. Dealer mechanics have been weaned on flat rate work which means that if they get 0.2 hours to fix an issue and they take 1.2 hours they are, in effect, working 1 hour without pay. Because of this most mechanics have gotten really good at swapping in new parts as opposed to trouble shooting. Good mechanics can usually come in under the flat rate time. When they do, they make good money and dealers make a mark-up on the parts. Everyone was happy. Meantime, the customer had no way of knowing that a 10 cent part could have avoided a new or rebuilt component at several hundred dollars.

This system no longer works with the technology in today's cars. Dealers have to have one or more techs who are really good (and I mean REALLY GOOD) trouble shooters who can find problems in a hurry. Your experience is a good example of what should not happen.

It would be good to know many in this thread have had DCT mechanical failures.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:56 AM   #1636
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I think Ford needs to do a better job of training the car dealer's mechanics in detecting potential problems in their cars since these cars are evolving into computers on wheels.

When I first purchased my Focus, I noticed the shuddering of the transmission (very slightly), but only when I began visiting this site. Even then, it was very infrequent. I am not sure I would have noticed it but for the fact that many folks here were having problems with their cars. I took it to my dealer (Sawgrass Ford in Florida) to have them check it out just to be safe, however. After waiting for three hours, the mechanic came to me and said my clutch was bad and had to be replaced. Immediately, I started to think the guy didn't know what the hell he was talking about. Mind you, I had the car for less than two months and had less than 4K and he was telling me the clutch was shot! (Sorry, but I didn't buy it) Soon afterwards, the DCT TSB update was released so I took it to another dealer (Pines Ford in Florida) and explained everything to them. The guys there had their act together. In fact, the rep I was dealing with there laughed when I told them Sawgrass wanted to replace my clutch. The rep said he believed the DCT probably needed to be updated and not have the clutch replaced. I had them do the update. Its been over a year since I've had my car and rarely do I notice any problems with it. The clutch was never replaced and it runs like a champ. While I am convinced some here have had legitimate problems with their cars, the fact that the some dealers have mechanics who are not adequately trained to diagnose and repair these cars only makes the matter worse.

Things get a lot better if you find a dealership with folks who know what they are doing. That's why I go to Pines Ford instead of Sawgrass Ford, even though I live closer to Sawgrass and I bought my car there. Sawgrass lost my business.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:03 AM   #1637
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Originally Posted by valmundo View Post
I think Ford needs to do a better job of training the car dealer's mechanics in detecting potential problems in their cars since these cars are evolving into computers on wheels.

When I first purchased my Focus, I noticed the shuddering of the transmission (very slightly), but only when I began visiting this site. Even then, it was very infrequent. I am not sure I would have noticed it but for the fact that many folks here were having problems with their cars. I took it to my dealer (Sawgrass Ford in Florida) to have them check it out just to be safe, however. After waiting for three hours, the mechanic came to me and said my clutch was bad and had to be replaced. Immediately, I started to think the guy didn't know what the hell he was talking about. Mind you, I had the car for less than two months and had less than 4K and he was telling me the clutch was shot! (Sorry, but I didn't buy it) Soon afterwards, the DCT TSB update was released so I took it to another dealer (Pines Ford in Florida) and explained everything to them. The guys there had their act together. In fact, the rep I was dealing with there laughed when I told them Sawgrass wanted to replace my clutch. The rep said he believed the DCT probably needed to be updated and not have the clutch replaced. I had them do the update. Its been over a year since I've had my car and rarely do I notice any problems with it. The clutch was never replaced and it runs like a champ. While I am convinced some here have had legitimate problems with their cars, the fact that the some of the ford mechanics are not adequately trained to diagnose and repair these cars only makes the matter worse.

Things get a lot better if you find a dealership with folks who know what their doing. That's why I go to Pines Ford instead of Sawgrass Ford, even though I live closer to Sawgrass and I bought my car there. Sawgrass lost my business.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Ford pays the dealer parts and labour for warranty work. As I said in an earlier post, mechanics and dealers make money replacing parts whether the parts need to be replaced or not. I am not suggesting anything covert in your case, just that the dealer may be following the pattern that has worked for them in the past. The problem with trouble shooting is that unless one is good at it they will not do well on a flat rate basis.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:27 AM   #1638
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Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Ford pays the dealer parts and labour for warranty work. As I said in an earlier post, mechanics and dealers make money replacing parts whether the parts need to be replaced or not. I am not suggesting anything covert in your case, just that the dealer may be following the pattern that has worked for them in the past. The problem with trouble shooting is that unless one is good at it they will not do well on a flat rate basis.
It would seem to me illogical that corporation with many years manufacturing cars would not call into question extensive warranty repairs on a new, low milage car. I can not believe they would tolerate the indiscriminate replacing of components designed to last at least 100,000 miles without an investigation as to why.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:32 AM   #1639
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It would seem to me illogical that corporation with many years manufacturing cars would not call into question extensive warranty repairs on a new, low milage car. I can not believe they would tolerate the indiscriminate replacing of components designed to last at least 100,000 miles without an investigation as to why.
Indeed. Any company that did this would plumb new depths of stupidity. This begs the question "What was the dealer thinking?"
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:44 AM   #1640
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As with a lot of things today, things are getting too complicated. In my case, I had two service managers tell me my car had a transmission problem. But, because the problem was not visible (broken part,etc) and there was no error code, they could not do any work on my trans without the ok of engineers. In many cases the dealer's hands are tied. When there is a problem and there is no error code, we hear the excuses, not only from the dealers, but also the engineers. I talked to an engineer who would not ok work to be done and I asked him why he didn't believe what my dealer was telling me. The excuses started...roll up your windows and turn the radio up, it's normal, there's no code so it can't be broke, and on and on.
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