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Old 01-05-2012, 08:29 PM   #81
Ghost71
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Love the stock set up. Thumps good
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:42 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoover460 View Post
Can you describe how this cured the system? I'm wondering what the specific symptoms are that this helped, as I may do it as well. Any down side to this? I don't want to put any money into this, I have a '66 Fairlane project eating my funds right now!
No down side at all if unless you break something while removing the speaker. Try it and you might be pleased.

For me, the center channel sounded distorted at higher volumes and was too shrill or harsh. With its removal, the system sounded much more balanced. If you don't like it just put it back in.

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Old 01-25-2012, 11:17 PM   #83
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I was looking @ the amp and noticed a model # which doesn't show up anywhere on Google.
What I did find out is although we have a 10 speaker system the amp is a nine channel amp which means the 10th speaker (in this case the center) is a created mono channel.

Either way, I wanted to see if disconnecting the center made a difference so I went ahead and removed the grill which btw has small metal tension clips so it is recommended you use some sort of pry tool.
I used a rubberized handle of a tool I had and went all the way around the edge.
I proceeded to disconnect the center and realized why it would sound better to some.

The reason is that there is a natural volume effect that occurs with most people - Louder is perceived to sound better.

What's happening here is the sound is not only created & shared to the center but so is the power.
So when you remove it from the equation, the power that was originally being "stolen" from the amp is correctly distributed to the remaining 9 channels. So you get a little more volume.

Another thing I noticed is with that extra volume, the tweeters appear crisper because they appear more pronounced.... also, it sounds like more seperation because there is no center...lol.

That said there is probably an easy remedy/mod if you don't want to leave it disconnecte by Creating a channel bypass button on the dash or by the grill.

imo, there should have been a center bypass within the MFT to turn it off but since it really insn't a dedicated channel, I guess it wasn't worth it.

So, I reconnected my center for 2 reasons.
- I didn't want to blow any speakers with the boost in power although I'm sure they would be fine
- I didn't want any part of my warranty for the sound system voided. Even though I could easily deny and say it came loose while hitting a bump...lol

iow, Not gonna chance it. lol
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Old 01-26-2012, 12:54 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Tee View Post
I was looking @ the amp and noticed a model # which doesn't show up anywhere on Google.
What I did find out is although we have a 10 speaker system the amp is a nine channel amp which means the 10th speaker (in this case the center) is a created mono channel.
Both the sub and center channels are mono, does that mean our amp is only 8 channels? Nope. The center is indeed mono (see the definition of the word 'stereo'). I'm not really sure what the point of your (incorrect) observation is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Tee View Post
I proceeded to disconnect the center and realized why it would sound better to some.

The reason is that there is a natural volume effect that occurs with most people - Louder is perceived to sound better.

What's happening here is the sound is not only created & shared to the center but so is the power.
So when you remove it from the equation, the power that was originally being "stolen" from the amp is correctly distributed to the remaining 9 channels. So you get a little more volume.
Negative, ghost rider. I'm sure that many others can explain the inner working of power amplifiers better than I can, but the gist of it is that each channel generates its rated power (more or less) and whether or not you use all channels or only a few doesn't mean it "redistributes" that unused power to other channels.

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Another thing I noticed is with that extra volume, the tweeters appear crisper because they appear more pronounced.... also, it sounds like more seperation because there is no center...lol.
No extra volume. In fact, by removing the center channel there would be less volume. If you mean "extra volume" because without the center channel you're probably turning the volume knob up more to get the same SPL as before then, yes...more volume. Correct...the tweeters appear more pronounced (and more perceived separation) because there is no center channel. I'm sure the mids do too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Tee View Post
imo, there should have been a center bypass within the MFT to turn it off but since it really insn't a dedicated channel, I guess it wasn't worth it.
Whether or not the center speaker is a true dedicated center "channel" speaker probably has very little to do with the presence or absence of a bypass button. None of the cars I've owned with center channels (even dedicated 5.1 systems) have had one. And just for clarification, what I meant by "dedicated" is an actual decoding system in place to produce only the dialogue and other important data on 5.1 recordings, like a DVD for example. The center channel we're listening to in our cars is just a summed mono channel which contains all the musical information of both channels put into one. My initial fears of disconnecting the center speaker was that if indeed it was a "dedicated" center channel, then its removal would have meant there would have been a huge hole in the musical material itself (namely vocals) as opposed to a hole in the imaging alone, as there might be whenever you disconnect a speaker that has sound coming out of it. However, this was not the case. Note - Again, even true center channel speakers in a 5.1 system are obviously mono.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Tee View Post
So, I reconnected my center for 2 reasons.
- I didn't want to blow any speakers with the boost in power although I'm sure they would be fine
Yes, they would be fine because there is no boost in power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Tee View Post
- I didn't want any part of my warranty for the sound system voided. Even though I could easily deny and say it came loose while hitting a bump...lol
As with any modification we might do to our cars, there is a corresponding chance of warranty infringement. However, whether or not there is a real risk involved is a complicated issue. Having said that, I doubt unhooking your center channel in and of itself would void your stereo's warranty. You'd be much more likely to have warranty issues if you were to install a "bypass button on the dash or by the grill" as you suggest.

This post should be on Mythbusters. Myth busted!

Tony
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Old 01-26-2012, 01:04 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony407 View Post
Both the sub and center channels are mono, does that mean our amp is only 8 channels? Nope. The center is indeed mono (see the definition of the word 'stereo'). I'm not really sure what the point of your (incorrect) observation is.



Negative, ghost rider. I'm sure that many others can explain the inner working of power amplifiers better than I can, but the gist of it is that each channel generates its rated power (more or less) and whether or not you use all channels or only a few doesn't mean it "redistributes" that unused power to other channels.



No extra volume. In fact, by removing the center channel there would be less volume. If you mean "extra volume" because without the center channel you're probably turning the volume knob up more to get the same SPL as before then, yes...more volume. Correct...the tweeters appear more pronounced (and more perceived separation) because there is no center channel. I'm sure the mids do too.



Whether or not the center speaker is a true dedicated center "channel" speaker probably has very little to do with the presence or absence of a bypass button. None of the cars I've owned with center channels (even dedicated 5.1 systems) have had one. And just for clarification, what I meant by "dedicated" is an actual decoding system in place to produce only the dialogue and other important data on 5.1 recordings, like a DVD for example. The center channel we're listening to in our cars is just a summed mono channel which contains all the musical information of both channels put into one. My initial fears of disconnecting the center speaker was that if indeed it was a "dedicated" center channel, then its removal would have meant there would have been a huge hole in the musical material itself (namely vocals) as opposed to a hole in the imaging alone, as there might be whenever you disconnect a speaker that has sound coming out of it. However, this was not the case. Note - Again, even true center channel speakers in a 5.1 system are obviously mono.



Yes, they would be fine because there is no boost in power.



As with any modification we might do to our cars, there is a corresponding chance of warranty infringement. However, whether or not there is a real risk involved is a complicated issue. Having said that, I doubt unhooking your center channel in and of itself would void your stereo's warranty. You'd be much more likely to have warranty issues if you were to install a "bypass button on the dash or by the grill" as you suggest.

This post should be on Mythbusters. Myth busted!

Tony
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Old 01-26-2012, 02:35 AM   #86
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lmao....Myth?
I'm not going to even get into a pizzing contest here.
I'll just say this:
-4 Woofers
-4 Tweeters
-1 Sub
-1 Center
= 10
The Amp is 9 channels so one channel has an extra speaker on it.

Now realistically, the amp could easily be a 2/2/2 type.
L/R Front - L/R Rear - C -Sub

Now, whether or not the 4 tweeters share a channel who knows but if they have there own channel there has to be a crossover/hi pass somewhere for obvious reason.

If you remember pro logic in Home theater systems, the rear signal was MONO even though there were 2 speakers. It took the rear signal, phase shifted them and output them to the 2 speakers accordingly while the center channel was encoded in the L&R signal. The latter is what could easily be happening here.

and YES, If if you add extra speakers to a line it is has a power effect on the AMP.
The more speakers you add to a channel, the less power each speaker gets.
i.e. You have a 2 channel amp w/ 3 speakers on it, when you remove the 3rd speaker the power gets distributed to 2 speakers so they'll receive more power.
iow you have 30w perchannel x2= 60 watts
w/ 3 speakers they get 20 watts ea
w/ 2 speakers they get 30 watts ea

Ftr, if i'm proven wrong on anything i'll be the 1st to admit it.
I was originally trying to chip in on the thread but after reading your reply seems you have it alll figured out already.
Also seems you went out of your way to diminish my post.
I've been working in audio for over 25 years and As I said, I'm not gonna get into a pizzin contest.
Thx for the thread, Enjoy your ride and if you ever want to ask a few things wake me up once you lose the chip.
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Old 01-26-2012, 10:50 AM   #87
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I believe he misunderstood your post, because I did. I didn't realize you were talking about multiple speakers attached to the same channel on your amp.

It seems that Tony was referring to the fact that speakers connected to different channels shouldn't have a power output effect on other channels.

I'm a little bit confused because you say it is a 9 channel amp, then suggest that multiple speakers are sharing one channel. I understand you have 10 speakers and 9 channels so, something (likely the center) is sharing a channel with something else. Is it possible to hear what frequency band the center speaker is playing?

But taking the center out would potentially only increase the power to the other speaker in the channel that it was sharing with.

Would there also be a possibility that the center is not connected to the amp, but maybe directly to the deck? I know the deck usually wouldn't have simple speaker outputs, but it could possibly have a separate line out for the center. Just an idea to consider.
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Old 01-26-2012, 02:20 PM   #88
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Quote:
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I believe he misunderstood your post, because I did. I didn't realize you were talking about multiple speakers attached to the same channel on your amp.
It seems that Tony was referring to the fact that speakers connected to different channels shouldn't have a power output effect on other channels.

I'm a little bit confused because you say it is a 9 channel amp, then suggest that multiple speakers are sharing one channel. I understand you have 10 speakers and 9 channels so, something (likely the center) is sharing a channel with something else. Is it possible to hear what frequency band the center speaker is playing?

But taking the center out would potentially only increase the power to the other speaker in the channel that it was sharing with.

Would there also be a possibility that the center is not connected to the amp, but maybe directly to the deck? I know the deck usually wouldn't have simple speaker outputs, but it could possibly have a separate line out for the center. Just an idea to consider.
Yes, that's what I was trying to say in terms of sharing the channel but it just seemed the reply was a littly hasty. Hey it's deinterznetz...lol

Btw, interesting thought on the direct to deck. Never thought of that but if it is then it would have to be a center output because of the phasing that would occur...interesting though.
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Old 01-26-2012, 05:33 PM   #89
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I considered that the center may have its own line out because some cars use a center channel to play system noises, not music/stereo related. I don't own a Focus yet so I don't know if this is the case.

Sometimes a center channel will play chimes or head unit button press noises so that everyone in the back seat doesn't hear that stuff. But it has more complex sounds than using some crappy internal speaker so they use a real external speaker. If such a speaker was connected through the amp, then all of the speakers would play it because the all sound signal is routed to the amp via RCA (left or right, not center).

A separate line out from the head unit would be able to separate these noises to just one center speaker. Again, I don't know if the Focus actually does this, I'm just saying one possible explanation for why the amp only has 9 channels for 10 speakers.

Does the sync lady talk through all of the regular speakers?
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Old 01-26-2012, 07:26 PM   #90
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Does the sync lady talk through all of the regular speakers?
Yes, she does. Taking the center channel out doesn't change the ease at which you can hear the navigation voice and other tech sounds.

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