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Old 05-24-2011, 10:12 PM   #51
Tony407
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Wow...... and people always accused me of not playing well in the sand box. As one person has obviously waded in with 13 years in Patrol experience, I also will comment.

First of All I retired with just under 32 years in policing, starting in 3 District Traffic in Toronto then moving to BC and spending about 17 years in Patrol and Traffic and after 10 years undercover returning to what I know best, being traffic investigation.

I have had about 10-15 course in various accident investigation and I have given expert evidence and opinion evidence in the Supreme Court of Canada as to accident investigation. I am not only an expert witness but an active Accident analysis and instructor.

I very rarely if ever go against other Police Officer's opinions and refused to do so when called to in court. However after reading all the comments I couldn't resist to add my 2 cents worth, even though they might be golden pennies.

In short it is plain dangerous to put HID lights in a regular housing. There is no if's and's or but's, you are civilly responsible, and if in Canada criminally responsible if you do anything that you knew, or ought to have known, that directly or in-directly caused or contributed to an accident.

Regular Halogen lights are designed with their own internal reflector for a specific beam, in a specified housing. It is even possible to convert H-9's to work in H-11 housing but even doing this, is illegal.

There are specifications that are universal under the "DOT" which both Canada and the USA abide by, and trained investigators use these regulations usually during the aftermath of a serious accident.

If 2 vehicles end up in what used to be my "property scene", we as a group of accident analysts, and re-constructionists, dissect the entire car looking for all causes that contributed to the cause of the accident.

I am sure that you can guess what will happen if we find your illegal bulbs in the car if they are not approved, I'm not saying that you will be found at fault, but you will definitely be listed as a potential contributor of the accident.

Needless to say HID lights are for HID housings, my e-coupe has HID's and they automatically center and level each and every time the vehicle is started regardless whether or not they remain on afterwards.

As for police officers never ticketing people for them, I would dis-agree, in BC newly trained officers are being instructed on the law, and write the offence under the general "fail to comply with MVAct and MVRegs" $187 and you are on your way unless you have other items in which you leave on a tow truck and mandatory ordered inspection which is immediate or required within 30 days.

In BC we have our up and coming "wanna be gang members" who love all the Bling and Shine of chrome and wine. Needless to say they put 26" rims on vehicles dressed up with tinted windows, HID lights and various other things which clearly stand out to Police and say "stop me, I'm a somebody" needless to say this happens and they are often ticketed.

Now at night Police can't really see the windows, wheels, or exhaust system but those light really stick out and say "hey look at me I'm a somebody" and in BC they do get stopped and ticketed, sorry just a fact of life.

If the above logic doesn't convince you think about Ford restricting or cancelling the warranty on your new car, because although your HID's only draw 35-55 watts when running, they do consume upwards of 1800 watts for 3-15 milliseconds during initial startup, and unless the circuit is designed by Ford for this initial start up current, they are well within their right to cancel your warranty on anything electrical related.

One thing I learned in 32 years of Policing is that once people make up their minds is extremely hard if not impossible to change their minds, this even goes for Police Officers and thats why every so often we even see them in the news.

So in summary I have to really wonder if having the "bling" of HID's is really worth it, and as for those who would say it gives them better light, there are numerous alternatives as H11 SU/2 Silverstar Ultra's available.
Thanks for sharing this.

I don't install HIDs for "bling". I install them for my safety and the safety of others in terms of being able to identify potential hazards on the road, beside the road, etc.

Having said that, one may wonder if this extra lighting is blinding to others. This is a great question and as far as I can tell the crux of this discussion.

Being that I am concerned about blinding, annoying, or causing others to be inconvenienced in some way (this is an aspect of my personality in which I take great pride) I feel that I have sufficiently done what is prudent in terms of getting on the road at night and literally being the "other" driver and looking at my own car's headlights from the perspective of an oncoming vehicle. In my opinion (probably like you, I spent over half my career driving around on grave shifts) the aftermarket HIDs on both my Mustang and F150 are not too bright, don't cause abnormal glare, and look virtually like every other car on the road. I'm not sure why I keep bringing this up again and again, except to point out that no one contributing to this thread has acknowledged this. Maybe I'm unique in this respect. And maybe HIDs are illegal because most people don't go through this process like I have done to make sure their lights are not dangerous to others. But at any rate, I refuse to be stereotyped into the "bling", "dangerous", or otherwise foolish, narcissistic, etc. category. It's just not me.

I have aftermarket HIDs in two of my cars. I hope to add them to my Focus as well. I will go through the same process of making sure my Focus' headlights aren't blinding to others. If they are, I certainly won't keep them. Plain and simple.

And e350 coupe, we both know there are tons of laws out there that don't make sense. I'm not saying this is or is not one of them. But I can tell you that while I don't relish the idea of thinking of myself as above the law, I am willing to run the risk of getting a ticket because I feel confident that I am abiding by the spirit of the law (don't blind other drivers with your lights), even though if not by the letter of the law (no aftermarket HIDs allowed, period).

As far as possibly causing an accident, I do not believe my lights are capable of doing this any more than any of the other cars on the road. As discussed before (and I believe this myself) there are plenty of cars on the road with OEM lights that are far more obnoxious than my aftermarket HIDs. I've seen them, my friends and family have seen them, and evidently people contributing to this thread have seen them. Hopefully, if I am ever involved in an accident and my aftermarket HIDs are suspected as a cause, I will not be blamed simply for having them, but judged accordingly by my individual circumstances.

Since this seems to be such a huge, important discussion about a very important topic, I am willing to add another element to my method of gauging whether my lights are disturbing to others. I'll have my friend's wife get in her car (she has sensitive eyes) and we'll approach each other in our respective cars at night and I'll ask her if my lights bother her. Hopefully this will add to my peace of mind that I am not bothering anyone.

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Old 05-24-2011, 10:16 PM   #52
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Please don't make me close this thread, for once this discussion has taken a (mostly) civil and informative route. kthxbai
I agree that it seems to be (mostly) civil and informative. I don't have control of others, but I am willing to keep on posting as long as the thread stays open. Please address those of us that get out of hand and give us ample warning if you feel the line is being crossed. I for one am enjoying this thread and I think it's a more-than-worthy topic of discussion.

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Old 05-24-2011, 10:22 PM   #53
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HELP!!! How do you get pass the Dipped Bulb B.S with after market HID's? I tried the cancellers and they worked for a day? Also does anyone know if the fog light are connected to a dipped beam sensor? I bought 35w slim ballast 5000k HID H11's if that helps

You are right, you asked for help and got everyone's opinion.

It has been 32 years since I was in electronics, and the problem you are having is that the computer is not detecting the correct resistance on the headlight wire and eventually shutting the output down for safety.

I have come across this problem numerous times when changing vehicles to operate on LED lights which draw such low current, that the computer reacts as if it is a fault, and auto disconnects.

You will have to install an in-line resistor to fool the computer that everything is OK and it then leave the HID's operational.

You could install the regular bulb measure the resistance, then switch to the HID setup again measure the resistance and then install an equivalent resistor to make up the difference.

I am not sure if Ford measurers both lights together or separately. I am assuming as it shut down the circuit, it is set up to measure separately, it would only make sense because if one light went out then the computer would not turn off both headlights just because one was blown.

However it is probably simpler to contact these people with your problem and they will either sell you an in-line unit or have one made up for you.

I have used them for numerous vehicles and they always came through for me.

http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-b...sp=%2F1157.htm

Good luck with your problem,
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Old 05-25-2011, 11:19 AM   #54
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If I had a Motorcycle I would install HIDs and Raise the Crap out of them and blind everyone so they know I am on the road. Just a thought.
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Old 05-25-2011, 03:00 PM   #55
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>>>If I had a Motorcycle I would install HIDs and Raise the Crap out of them and blind everyone

That **may** (I can tell you my experience, your's may vary) result in unintended safety consequences.

I've done prodcution test riding of motorcycles which has taken me to 44 states. I prefer (again, you may have better luck with something else) to use Whelan TIR3 LED's mounted at bar height on the front and on the rear. These are the same lights that many law enforcement agencies use for their vehicles lighting, the NYPD motorcycle unit uses them on their bikes as well.

I've had them set up with the turn signals (amber on the front) and the brake lights (red on the rear) to avoid getting crossways with law enforcement. (I've been nabbed twice when I was using Whelan strobes) and this allows me, when approaching an intersetion, to make darn certain I am seen by oncoming traffic and that when I hit my brakes, there is no doubt from the rear. There are a couple other tricks, but for lighting they work very well.

Motorcycles, as some of you know, may as well be moving targets . . . and, in the day of texting and common cellphone use, it's gotten worse.
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Old 05-27-2011, 07:53 AM   #56
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Get a life.
Hilarious.
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Old 06-06-2011, 11:47 PM   #57
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ok so has anyone come up with a fix??? I don't care if we should or shouldn't use HIDs I gonna use them...lol so if anyone can help that would be awesome...Thanks and hello I new here...lol
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:38 PM   #58
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Old 06-27-2011, 11:09 PM   #59
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Few points to bring up.

Headlights do have specific aiming requirements, and while they do not change per vehicle, the legal requirement for the placement of headlights is enforced. As i recall, headlights may not be more than 3' off the ground, and while its rarely ticketed, techinically, most lifted trucks break this law. That is why, even if you do have properly aimed headlights in your lifted truck, they are still illegal.

Anybody who claims that HIDs in reflector housings increases output is quite confused. HIDs do not produce the same sort of output as halogen bulbs, and as such, light scatter is far more evident on HID vehilces. In fact, installing HIDs in even halogen projector housings causes major scattering. The bulb is a very different design and should be treated as such. You also lose high-beam capability, which can be essential for night time driving in remote areas.

When installed in a proper HID housing, HIDs provide solid, consistant lighting and with a bi-xenon setup, unbeatable output for both high and low beams. All of this, while maintaining DOT standards.

Im not going to bag on anybody for installing HIDs in reflector housings, its their choice, and so be it. But just let it be known that the only gain from doing so is in your head.

Your choice, spend $100 on a crappy ebay setup, or spend $279 on a RetrofitSource kit.


If you want sources, i had a 6000k HID setup in both my stock reflectors, as well as in halogen projector housings, Neither held a candle to the stock output. The setup i have now through theretrofitsource puts even machs to shame.
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Old 06-28-2011, 04:40 AM   #60
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Anybody who claims that HIDs in reflector housings increases output is quite confused. HIDs do not produce the same sort of output as halogen bulbs, and as such, light scatter is far more evident on HID vehilces. In fact, installing HIDs in even halogen projector housings causes major scattering.
What evidence do you have of this claim? Any road tests where a reputable source used aftermarket HIDs and tested them to see if the light was scattered? Of course they're not the "same", that goes without saying. If they were the same, they'd be the...same.

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You also lose high-beam capability, which can be essential for night time driving in remote areas.
Not true. I have low and high beams and they work quite well. The bulb base has a strong magnet which pulls the bulb backwards when you activate the high beams, and thus the light is aimed upwards. I was skeptical of this at first, but it seems to work well.

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When installed in a proper HID housing, HIDs provide solid, consistant lighting and with a bi-xenon setup, unbeatable output for both high and low beams.
Are you just quoting something you read somewhere? I've had multiple cars with HIDs and not all of them were "unbeatable". My 2001 Maxima (with retrofitted 2002 OEM Maxima HIDs) were pretty good. My 2007 Infiniti M45 had awful HIDs. My 2009 Jaguar XF had phenomenal HIDs. My 2009 Cadillac CTS-V had mediocre HIDs.

Right now I have my 2008 F150 with 5000K HIDs and they are FAR better for night time visibility than the stock halogens. My 2006 Mustang also has aftermarket 5000K HIDs and they are just as good. I get maybe one or two people that flash their high beams at me a month, which is about average or less than average compared to other cars I've owned (all stock, some halogen and some HID). Most of that flashing comes when I am cresting a hill and the beams shine directly into the face of the oncoming driver, which has happened many times before even with OEM lighting.

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Originally Posted by ViperThreat View Post
Im not going to bag on anybody for installing HIDs in reflector housings, its their choice, and so be it. But just let it be known that the only gain from doing so is in your head.
My eyes are in my head, so yes...the gain is definitely in my head.

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If you want sources, i had a 6000k HID setup in both my stock reflectors, as well as in halogen projector housings, Neither held a candle to the stock output.
I'm sorry you purchased bad HIDs or possibly didn't have them set up correctly. I too have had 6000K and thought the output was awful. For my eyes, 5000K lights up the road the best and gives me the most optimal view ahead. 6000K is just too blue for me, and I couldn't even tell the lights were on some times.

I know you're trying to contribute, which you've done extremely respectfully, but it seems as if your negative experiences with aftermarket HIDs has been due to poor purchasing choices (namely, 6000K bulbs), claims with no basis in fact (scatter), erroneous information (no high beams), and a false reliance on "popular opinion" (unbeatable output).

No disrespect, just pointing out some errors in your information.

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