knock sensor issues

[illinipo]

Originally Posted by 1turbofocus

He has the correct KS logged in his list

Tom

Originally Posted by EggYolkedZX3

the first "KNOCK SENSOR RETARD LIMIT" DMR in the SBAF6 processor code list

Not if he is using the first one.

But what the hell do I know (nothing apparently)

[BowerR64]

Originally Posted by 1turbofocus

Bower you have a Duratec and your KS readings will be diff

He has the correct KS logged in his list

Tom

ok i thought he just wanted to see some other logs.

[EggYolkedZX3]

Originally Posted by illinipo

SBAF6 has two DMRs that are described as KNOCK SENSOR RETARD LIMIT. I've talked to SCT about this at least 10 times over the last 3 years and all they have done was change the name of one of them, not the description. You need to take a closer look at the names, or download the latest livelink if you cannot see the difference I outline below.

KNK_RET_LIM is the first one. There is a table in the ECU with axes of RPM against load that simply limits the amount of knock retard you can get. It is -5 in almost all cells, with a few at low and high rpm at -4. The reason you are seeing -5 on this DMR only when you are moving or transbraking is the sensor is not allowed to be active at all until 0.359 load, and you would be hard pressed to see that much load without the car in gear (Tom already metioned this earlier in the thread). So basically whenever you are driving, as you describe, this should rightly show -5.

KNK_SEN_RETARD is the second one, the one you actually want to log, this is the actual knock retard. This one you ought to be able to at least see it ramp down (instead of jump down) to -5, and ramp slowly back up (instead of jump up) when you let off the throttle, if it is indeed pulling full knock retard.

You and Tom are both right. Thanks for the awesome detailed response though!

It turns out the right KNK SEN RETARD was being logged. I had the view on the "long name PIDs" setting instead of the "16 Char Name PIDs". In the long name veiw, both DMR's show up exactly the same as "KNOCK SENSOR RETARD LIMIT" but for some reason the correct one to be logged comes up first in the PID list. In the 16 view, the correct one comes up second on the list?

But yes, the graph shows a short little spike (about 0.6-1.0 advancement) then drops straight down to -5. Just waiting for my new one to see if anything changes.

[illinipo]

Originally Posted by EggYolkedZX3

You and Tom are both right. Thanks for the awesome detailed response though!

It turns out the right KNK SEN RETARD was being logged. I had the view on the "long name PIDs" setting instead of the "16 Char Name PIDs". In the long name veiw, both DMR's show up exactly the same as "KNOCK SENSOR RETARD LIMIT" but for some reason the correct one to be logged comes up first in the PID list. In the 16 view, the correct one comes up second on the list?

But yes, the graph shows a short little spike (about 0.6-1.0 advancement) then drops straight down to -5. Just waiting for my new one to see if anything changes.

After going through the same process on a NFC1 car of buying a new sensor and lashing the valves to min spec, with no change in the sensor activity, I would recommend you guys just lower the sensitivity from the get-go. The combination of listening to it and lowering sensitivity would be very effective.

But supposedly I don't know what I'm doing so you probably should just ignore my posts.

[BowerR64]

Originally Posted by illinipo

But supposedly I don't know what I'm doing so you probably should just ignore my posts.

Why do you keep saying that?

Maybe you should make that your sig so you wont have to keep typing it.

[Roushturboedzx3]

My knock sensor has been turned off for over a year now. There not accurate. I have logs of it picking up noise from the wastegate and it would pull 2degrees. Also when I would shift fast it would think it was knock and pull 5 degrees then slowly put it back in. As long as your tuner knows what he is doing there should be no problems. Also I fill up at any gas station. Hess, Bp, sans club. Etc.

[BowerR64]

Originally Posted by Roushturboedzx3

My knock sensor has been turned off for over a year now. There not accurate. I have logs of it picking up noise from the wastegate and it would pull 2degrees. Also when I would shift fast it would think it was knock and pull 5 degrees then slowly put it back in. As long as your tuner knows what he is doing there should be no problems. Also I fill up at any gas station. Hess, Bp, sans club. Etc.

How do you have it turned off?

I wondered about that myself, when i started reading about what they are and how they work. Then listening to sound clips i must say it sounded a little iffy to me. I then read where some one said they use some kind of audio filtering or somthing to single out the knock. It makes a little more sence till the OP said they are only $30. for the sensor now im starting to wonder.

If i raced my car i dont think ide want one pulling timming out but for how im using my car ill leave it alone.

[1turbofocus]

You actually do want it to pull timing if you have knock and on the Zetec and Duratec they work perfectly on about 99% of the Foci

Its my opinion to leave the knock sensor on as it is a HUGH safety for your engine , yes you may see some knock on gear change but thats perfectly normal because of tip in timing adding timing on tipin in among other things

Please leave your KS on at all times unless you have a SVT

Tom

[EggYolkedZX3]

I just got my new KS and rear o2 sensor thanks to RockAuto.com, only took them 2 days! Once my car cools down, I'll be installing both things and report back if anything changes.

[Roushturboedzx3]

Originally Posted by 1turbofocus

You actually do want it to pull timing if you have knock and on the Zetec and Duratec they work perfectly on about 99% of the Foci

Its my opinion to leave the knock sensor on as it is a HUGH safety for your engine , yes you may see some knock on gear change but thats perfectly normal because of tip in timing adding timing on tipin in among other things

Please leave your KS on at all times unless you have a SVT

Tom

I agree a knock sensor is a nice backup if something goes wrong (gas, boost,etc) but the focus ones are not calibrated right. they pick up the noise from the drums on the dyno, road noise, wastegate, and shifting.

Pulling 5.5 degrees (not 5 like i thought) is not normal. the car fell on it face everytime.

Also you know as well as i do that chris focus blew the ringlands with a J&S on it when you tuned it. there was deto marks on the piston head. I bring chris car up cause it had the J&S on it and still went. I would love if we had a company that would make a nice External knock system for our cars that get away with the factory one.