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Old 06-23-2011, 01:49 PM   #41
Whiskeyjack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoasterDan View Post
This wouldn't be necessary with a traditional auto. trans because the torque converter would allow the revs to come up for more power in the higher gear.
The shift changes in a conventional automatic are determined by the transmission control unit (TCU), just as they are for the DCT (PowerShift). Both transmissions take input from a similar set of sources. For best fuel economy, which seems to be super important for this vehicle class, Ford has programmed the shift changes to occur at a low rpm, around 1500 - 2000 rpm in standard drive mode, in my experience.

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Originally Posted by RustySocket View Post
A typical auto with a torque converter will typically shift very smooth and has a smooth power delivery to the wheels, essentially because the converter slips and does not lockup initially.

A manual is slipped by the driver and lockup occurs as soon as the clutch pedal is released. When driving a manual about the only time you really slip the clutch is when leaving in first gear. Once the car is moving most drivers rev it out and then shift at about the same RPM until up to speed.

I like to drive in sport mode and rev the car out a little bit and then also downshift into corners to use engine braking as well. In drive or with a standard auto you cannot do this.
Agreed. For a manual or DCT to have smooth up shifts, the shift must be timed with the vehicle speed and engine rpm, assuming the driver isn't going to do something else during the shift, like sudden hard braking. Typically, on a manual, the throttle is let up briefly when the clutch is disengaged to keep the rpm's in check, but the resulting hesitation can be felt by the driver.

From this article describing the PowerShift:

Quote:
Ford PowerShift’s advanced features include:

Torque Hole Fill: A Ford-developed and patented innovation that eliminates the slight hesitation drivers feel during acceleration when the transmission upshifts into a higher gear. PowerShift sends a smooth, seamless stream of torque to the wheels for uninterrupted acceleration.
...

The PowerShift for the all-new Focus, for example, offers several new features including a more compliant clutch damper spring design to reduce noise levels. Aversa said the Focus shift schedule has been optimized for the wider torque band provided by the car’s 160-horsepower, direct-injected 2.0-liter engine.
I don't think the torque hole is completely eliminated, but it's very slight.
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Old 06-23-2011, 02:10 PM   #42
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[QUOTE=Whiskeyjack;3716568]The shift changes in a conventional automatic are determined by the transmission control unit (TCU), just as they are for the DCT (PowerShift). Both transmissions take input from a similar set of sources. For best fuel economy, which seems to be super important for this vehicle class, Ford has programmed the shift changes to occur at a low rpm, around 1500 - 2000 rpm in standard drive mode, in my experience.

I wasn't referring to the timing of the shift changes; rather, I was referring to the fact that the torque converter slippage allows the engine to rev higher and produce more power. Without a torque converter, the Powershift will sometimes feel like it's in the "wrong gear," requiring a downshift if you want to accelerate.
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Old 06-23-2011, 02:29 PM   #43
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Agreed, as you said it has it's good points and bad points. The good being that you can drive it either way you prefer. and the absence of a TC means that the transmission itself is more efficient. The bad is that it takes a while for those who are not used to a manual or a dsg to get used to how it feels, and how to use it to their advantage (ie downshifting)

For me, I love the dsg transmissions, this is the fourth car I have owned with one. All the benifits of a manual (for the most part).... and no clutch pedal to wear out my old knees when sitting in the relentless stop and go Seattle traffic in a long commute.
And I agree with you. I like a manual trans., but the DSG/Powershift are very nice, too. I do enjoy driving the Focus.

DW
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Old 06-23-2011, 02:38 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoasterDan View Post
I wasn't referring to the timing of the shift changes; rather, I was referring to the fact that the torque converter slippage allows the engine to rev higher and produce more power. Without a torque converter, the Powershift will sometimes feel like it's in the "wrong gear," requiring a downshift if you want to accelerate.
Understood. When the torque converter is not in lock up mode, the engine revs are free to change somewhat independently of vehicle speed, and the change from a higher to lower torque converter speed ratio provides a torque boost. A torque converter will always be more "responsive" to sudden engine power changes than a manual because of this effect.
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Old 06-23-2011, 03:41 PM   #45
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I'm wondering how long the clutch pack is good for in terms of mileage. I imagine that a DCT might need a clutch change earlier than a conventional automatic will need a rebuild, but will probably be a lot less costly.
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Old 06-23-2011, 04:15 PM   #46
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The owner's manual shows the first scheduled tranny maintenance (for fluid change) is at 150k miles, but it doesn't say anything about the clutch. Like a manual clutch, the life will depend on the type of driving.
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Old 06-24-2011, 12:34 AM   #47
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I've had the Focus for a week now and I am fairly happy with the transmission. I've driven Manuals all my life and this is my first Auto. Although it's a little weird when you first move your hand to the gear lever to downshift, the Auto does a fairly good job of figuring out the gears.
The car does make a few sounds after a cold start.
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Old 06-24-2011, 11:51 AM   #48
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I drove the Focus 45 miles this morning. The transmission behaved perfectly.

Most of the drive was at freeway speeds, but there were some long hills. Without doing anything special but keeping the speed below 70, I averaged 37 mpg. There are still less than 1,000 miles on the car so I expect that the mileage will improve with time, but I'm happy with that #.
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Old 06-24-2011, 06:02 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoasterDan View Post
I drove the Focus 45 miles this morning. The transmission behaved perfectly.

Most of the drive was at freeway speeds, but there were some long hills. Without doing anything special but keeping the speed below 70, I averaged 37 mpg. There are still less than 1,000 miles on the car so I expect that the mileage will improve with time, but I'm happy with that #.
Just took a road trip, and it does seem that you do need to have the accelerator planted more to maintain speeds over 70 mph. I could easily coast in the 60-69mph range with some light pumps on the throttle.

Bring the speed down to 55-65 and I've rocked 41 mpg averages with some good coasting.
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Old 06-24-2011, 06:43 PM   #50
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I drove a VW DSG for 5.5 years and so far this tranny is mostly smoother. Like the VW, it doesn't like rolling stops. One thing you always need to remember about these transmission is that when the transmission begins a shift, the worst thing you can do is change the pressure you have on the gas pedal (if depressed). The thing shifts expecting it to be at the same place at the beginning and end of the shift. You can expect a rough shift if you move the gas pedal during one.
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