Injector PW vs Ignition Timing? - Focus Fanatics
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Old 05-12-2011, 11:31 PM   #1
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Injector PW vs Ignition Timing?

I found this article/post, (last post) http://e85vehicles.com/e85/index.php?topic=1893.0
and that's how I'm attempting to figure out correct timing for myself. I understand it's talking about BSFC.
What I'm wondering is if it applies only to Closed Loop or if it applies to Open Loop also?
My assumption is that it applies to all fueling situations, being that BSFC has to do with the most TQ from the least amount of fuel.


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Old 05-13-2011, 12:49 AM   #2
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It would apply to open loop as well in my opinion , keep in mind that the Hondas are EXTREMELY more efficient and anything tested on them shoudlnt be used when testing or tuning on the Zetec engine

99% Of the Zetec engines have a very good working knock sensor that both adds and removes timing as needed why are you not using that to tune with

Tom
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Old 05-13-2011, 02:11 AM   #3
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Oh I have been. But being Ethanol is more knock tolerant than gasoline I'm just worried about going too hog wild and eating bearings (eventually).

The table I started tuning from was the 'race fuel' one in the database. Table seemed pretty good but I did add timing in most of the upper range, on average 2-3*; Max on the race map is 20* and my max is 26*.

I'm not using any timing #'s I've found anywhere but in the SCT Focus Zetec tables. I tried doing the theoretical math thing and got pretty damn close, just didn't trust my work enough to use the #'s. I will compare what I end up getting with the math I worked out though to see how close I am, in theory.

Learning process and what not.

So far I logged with what I had, then I added 2* across the board, then I added another 2* up to 5,000rpm (I think it was, have to double check). So far it looks like PW is dropping as I'm adding.
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Old 05-13-2011, 07:34 AM   #4
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I do not like or trust e85 , I would increase the max that the knock sensor can adjust to -8 vs the -5 its set at factory

When you added the 2 deg then 2 deg more was the knock sensor adding that much already at that load and RPM

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Old 05-13-2011, 12:36 PM   #5
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No. The knock sensor isn't very active. The only RPM it's ever added anything is right around 4,000, I'd have to look back to see exactly where. But pretty much it's calm most of the time.
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Old 05-13-2011, 02:05 PM   #6
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There are 2 rpm that the Zetec is most prone to knock and that 4200 and 6200

Got any datalogs

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Old 05-13-2011, 03:56 PM   #7
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Tons of them, but most of them are kinda spotty and screwy ... I'd been logging with the xcal. I'd thought I could get decent info with it and didn't realize I wasn't supposed to log 20 minutes worth of data with it. Oopsie. So now I'm using the laptop and getting a lot more/better data, go figure, lol.

I'm going to go for a drive/log just now and I'll upload the log after.
Pete mentioned uploading in some special format that I can't remember ... ? I look at everything with Excel.


...


Logs in Excel format, I already went through and found the averages mentioned in the PW link, I left all the tabs to show how I got to the final tab which has the info I'm dealing with

http://www.4shared.com/file/6Zy0XxJZ/tohutch.html
http://www.4shared.com/file/4kFWVscJ/from.html


The files are on the large side because the logs where over the course of ~30 miles, about 15 each. It's dam hard to get the RPM and load data to fill the entire table with a good sample data. Basically the 2000-3000 range is all I'd trust. The higher RPM range's came from running a higher gear, 4th and 3rd @ 55-75mph.
It'll take me a while to get enough data that I trust to get it tuned to my liking, I think. Can't imagine it'd be easy to do on a dyno either, getting load's to stabilize vs RPM. Plus I don't feel like shelling out money I don't need to, but I know I'll have to rent some dyno time.
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Old 05-13-2011, 09:34 PM   #8
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359 sec to download ? how big is the file , why are you logging for 20 min ?

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Old 05-14-2011, 02:46 PM   #9
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I want a large sample data. That should ensure accuracy.

I will say this, from what I've adjusted thus far I've seen improvements. Feels like I have more power and that the power is smoother and I know I'm getting better mileage.
Weekends I usually go up to St Cloud. It's about 45 miles away and I was using about 1/4 tank of fuel to get there. Last night I made it up and back on a 1/4 tank. Though I'll have to run into town later and fill up to see how much better my mileage is, previously I was doing 24ish mpg. If I can get 30ish would be really nice ... 87 up there was $3.95 last night and I'm paying $2.95 here for E-85.

If the weather cooperates, Monday I'm thinking of doing a few dyno runs and Wens. heading up to the 1/4 mile track, hoping for mid/high 14's.
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Old 05-14-2011, 05:53 PM   #10
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Well I found my thinking cap, who hid it I'm not sure but they'll get a talking to for sure! LOL



No more need for spreadsheets. Sooooo much easier and quicker. I glance over, see the RPM/Load I'm missing and try to modulate the throttle to get that cell filled.

Go to the spark advance table and see what my average timing is:




And I know at what RPM and load I need to make a change ... what direction I don't know but trial/error is easy enough.

But now what to fill the void in my brain with, hmmm ... ok, porn it is. LMAO
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