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Old 03-31-2011, 01:47 PM   #11
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Throw the eibach dampers in the garbage where they belong and get konis. I'm on the prokit with stock bars, koni yellow front and PSS9 shocks rear, and I did not rub on 225/50-16 et45 Hoosier A6. And A6 run WIDE. I started off on the eibach dampers but their "activity" in transitions was horrendous. Changed dampers, completely different car. It drives like a RWD car now.

Stiff and low is not always better. If you can learn how to drive, good controlled suspension can help you be smoother. Very important to have great dampers and proper settings, especially in transition like you are complaining about.
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Old 03-31-2011, 02:04 PM   #12
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would any of you say that the tokico blues are any better or worse than the kyb agx??? i know the tokicos are not adj....just curious if anyone has used both
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Old 03-31-2011, 02:07 PM   #13
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I run H&R coil-overs with 215/45/17 I got my fenders rolled and when I go for Autox I still rub in hard corners.
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Old 03-31-2011, 02:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtbrown View Post
would any of you say that the tokico blues are any better or worse than the kyb agx??? i know the tokicos are not adj....just curious if anyone has used both
I would run new OE dampers way before putting something like a "tokico blue" on my car. Actually I would probably choose new OE SVTF dampers over KYB AGX as well. Really, and I am not exaggerating, Koni Yellow is the cheapest non-OE damper that I can recommend for autocrossing a Focus.

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I run H&R coil-overs with 215/45/17 I got my fenders rolled and when I go for Autox I still rub in hard corners.
Yeah man our cars have a hard time fitting much tire on a 17". Hell, 215/45/17 requires fender rolling to avoid rubbing on STOCK svt springs.
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Old 03-31-2011, 02:32 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by mellephants View Post
This is, in my extremely biased opinion, the ONLY reasonable upgrade path for autocrossing an SVT Focus. The only ordering change I would understand is flipping the r-comps and springs. Other than that, if your goals are to be competitive at autocross, I think you are wasting time and money if you do these out of order.
  1. [HS] stock SVT springs with Koni Yellow adjustable dampers
  2. [HS] good aggressive alignment: max front negative camber without adjustable plates, minimum possible rear camber, 0" front toe, 1/16" rear toe in
  3. [ST] even more aggressive alignment: -2.5 front negative camber via adjustable plates
  4. [ST] 15" wheels (you can stick with R-S3, but in 225/45-15)
  5. [ST] High-flow catalytic converter
  6. [ST] Polyurethane sway bar bushings
  7. [ST] Polyurethane motor mount
  8. [STX] Torsen T2 differential
  9. [ST,STX] H&R Race springs, or other springs with similar height and rate
  10. [FSP] Rcomps, probably Hankook z214 c71 225/45-15
  11. [FSP] Whatever else you feel like doing under SP rules... cat delete, aluminum flywheel, aftermarket clutch, larger TB, PCV delete, miscellaneous polyurethane bushings, etc...
Thanks for the list man. Gives me some insight. I am still looking for 15s ... and I hear the Rota 15s fit the SVT Brakes. So do the 15 Motegi Tracklites. ... but that's for next year ... I want to focus my attention on the suspension by the start of the summer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by illinipo View Post
Throw the eibach dampers in the garbage where they belong and get konis. I'm on the prokit with stock bars, koni yellow front and PSS9 shocks rear, and I did not rub on 225/50-16 et45 Hoosier A6. And A6 run WIDE. I started off on the eibach dampers but their "activity" in transitions was horrendous. Changed dampers, completely different car. It drives like a RWD car now.

Stiff and low is not always better. If you can learn how to drive, good controlled suspension can help you be smoother. Very important to have great dampers and proper settings, especially in transition like you are complaining about.
Yeah, I do indeed complain about the rubbing and somewhat feel of roll in transitions ... that's why I asked.

Now ... I am looking at the H&R Race Springs ... do you think for now, I could go with those springs until I get the cash to get the Koni's? Would that help a bit? I mean they are stiffer so it shouldn't rub as much right?

FYI ... I now only drive this to the track and focus meets ... I have another car for a daily.

So I am going for some extreme performance, but still stay in the ST class. I am happy with playing in there to get better. Then, when I do get much better, I will begin to explore the R-Comp world and jumping up in class ... but that's much much later.

-Ray-
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Old 03-31-2011, 02:37 PM   #16
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Ray Ill sell you my DGR Coils plus your stock ones.
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Old 03-31-2011, 02:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tukaniSVT View Post
Now ... I am looking at the H&R Race Springs ... do you think for now, I could go with those springs until I get the cash to get the Koni's? Would that help a bit? I mean they are stiffer so it shouldn't rub as much right?

FYI ... I now only drive this to the track and focus meets ... I have another car for a daily.

So I am going for some extreme performance, but still stay in the ST class. I am happy with playing in there to get better. Then, when I do get much better, I will begin to explore the R-Comp world and jumping up in class ... but that's much much later.

-Ray-
Dampers FIRST. Then figure out your alignment (camber plates if possible). Then springs if needed. Then bars, and only if you have a reason for them. Stock bars are fine in the majority of cases.

Above all, work on the driver. No other mod has more of an effect on your times. In fact you will find that as you grow as a driver, your suspension desires will change.

List of formidable cars I beat at one event on RAW TIME on this A6/prokit/koni/PSS9 setup:

03 mini cooper S
03 SRT4
CSP miata prepared to the rules
08 S2000
02 WRX
08 GTI
08 Evo
02 Porsche 911 C4S (it was his second autocross, he got 1 sec better than me on a fun run)
08 350Z

So as you can see since my grocery getter grandma wagon with 200,000 miles beat all these sports cars on straight up raw time... The car does not matter nearly as much as the driver.
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Old 03-31-2011, 02:39 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mellephants View Post


Yeah man our cars have a hard time fitting much tire on a 17". Hell, 215/45/17 requires fender rolling to avoid rubbing on STOCK svt springs.
yeah next season Im getting 215/40/17 and that should do a trick.
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Old 03-31-2011, 02:51 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mellephants View Post
This is, in my extremely biased opinion, the ONLY reasonable upgrade path for autocrossing an SVT Focus. The only ordering change I would understand is flipping the r-comps and springs. Other than that, if your goals are to be competitive at autocross, I think you are wasting time and money if you do these out of order.
  1. [HS] stock SVT springs with Koni Yellow adjustable dampers
  2. [HS] good aggressive alignment: max front negative camber without adjustable plates, minimum possible rear camber, 0" front toe, 1/16" rear toe in
  3. [ST] even more aggressive alignment: -2.5 front negative camber via adjustable plates
  4. [ST] 15" wheels (you can stick with R-S3, but in 225/45-15)
  5. [ST] High-flow catalytic converter
  6. [ST] Polyurethane sway bar bushings
  7. [ST] Polyurethane motor mount
  8. [STX] Torsen T2 differential
  9. [ST,STX] H&R Race springs, or other springs with similar height and rate
  10. [FSP] Rcomps, probably Hankook z214 c71 225/45-15
  11. [FSP] Whatever else you feel like doing under SP rules... cat delete, aluminum flywheel, aftermarket clutch, larger TB, PCV delete, miscellaneous polyurethane bushings, etc...
Additional H stock advancement:
-FSB poly or delrin bushings with adjustable endlinks with spherical bearings

ST comments:
-The SVT stock cat actually flows very well, I wouldn’t look to change it

SVT goes to DSP, currently there is a small campaign to change this, and move all foci to the same SP class, could be GSP next year…

Back to topic on hand, I would look to roll the fenders, add konis, then upgrade springs, my $0.02
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Old 03-31-2011, 03:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tukaniSVT View Post
Thanks for the list man. Gives me some insight. I am still looking for 15s ... and I hear the Rota 15s fit the SVT Brakes. So do the 15 Motegi Tracklites. ... but that's for next year ... I want to focus my attention on the suspension by the start of the summer.
No problem, dude

The PR TD1 15x7 +45 works great, too. I am currently running some 205/50 RE11's on them. If I stay in STX I will go to 225/45 R-S3, and if I go to FSP I will go to 225/45 z214 c71.


IMG_1107 by mellephants, on Flickr

If you look very closely there you can see Koni

Quote:
Originally Posted by tukaniSVT View Post
Now ... I am looking at the H&R Race Springs ... do you think for now, I could go with those springs until I get the cash to get the Koni's? Would that help a bit? I mean they are stiffer so it shouldn't rub as much right?
No, like Pete said, do dampers before springs. While I admit a stiffer spring could help a car resist rubbing, I think the H&R's are lower than the Prokit... so I don't think it will help very much at all. You're better off just rolling the fenders and/or going back to stock SVT springs if you want to stop rubbing. IMO you should try to sell the whole Prokit, buy Koni yellows, and use them with your stock SVT springs. My car does quite well on this setup. I did 15th out of 72 on raw time (on my first run, too! since it was 28F that day, I kept making big slow errors on the other runs) at our first event this year... http://ccsportscarclub.org/files/201...tartedraw.html

Also, just for fun, and to sort of show you why suspension movement is a good thing, especially when you have a good alignment (toe & camber) :


IMG_0484 by mellephants, on Flickr

As you can see, the suspension is very loaded, and the right front is planted squarely, with zero understeer. If you click through to the next two pictures you can watch the rear of car rotate beautifully as he comes around the corner. Also note there are no brake lights, since for that corner in my car, you just had to lift the throttle a bit to get that nice rotation, then plant it right back down to exit the corner quickly.

I took this pic, my little brother is driving the car. This was his 3rd time autocrossing, I think, and he does not drive anything close to a focus on the street, so he is a total novice... and with no practice at all, he has had no problem throwing down run times compatible with a whole field of experienced racers (43rd of 72, raw). I think that says a lot for how easy it is to drive my car fast with the current suspension setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tukaniSVT View Post
So I am going for some extreme performance, but still stay in the ST class. I am happy with playing in there to get better. Then, when I do get much better, I will begin to explore the R-Comp world and jumping up in class ... but that's much much later.
Perfect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc_fan View Post
ST comments:
-The SVT stock cat actually flows very well, I wouldn’t look to change it
I can't say much about the stock SVT cat, mine was very restrictive but that was probably because I grenaded some valves into it... long story for another thread, lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc_fan View Post
SVT goes to DSP, currently there is a small campaign to change this, and move all foci to the same SP class, could be GSP next year…
Yes, I am the one pushing the DSP->FSP change, and I am confident that we can make it happen for 2012... I was hoping someone would catch that

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc_fan View Post
Additional H stock advancement:
-FSB poly or delrin bushings with adjustable endlinks with spherical bearings
I forgot you can do FSB poly in HS, good call. What is this about adjustable endlinks with spherical bearings?? Does that really help much, and is it really HS legal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc_fan View Post
Back to topic on hand, I would look to roll the fenders, add konis, then upgrade springs, my $0.02
Yes! Thank you, I forgot to list rolling the fenders in my post... Ray, if you are just trying to stop rubbing, then obviously that is the first step! I was able to stop rubbing on lots of different sizes, including the OE 215/45/17, with soft stock SVT springs, with just some rolling.

As far as what I have fit under SVT springs, I have run lots of things, with various amounts of rubbing/not rubbing. Here is a probably incomplete list:
  • 17x7 with 215/45 Kumho Ecsta MX, Goodyear Eagle F1
  • 16x7 with 225/50 BFG gForce Sport, Hoosier A6
  • 16x7 with 205/50 Dunlop Z1 Star Spec, BFG gForce Sport, and etc
  • 16x6 with 205/50 Dunlop Z1 Star Spec, Pirelli P6, and etc
  • 16x6 with 205/55 Dunlop Z1 Star Spec, Hankook Icebear W300
  • 16x6 with 205/60 General Altimax Arctic
  • 15x7 with 225/50 Kumho Ecsta V710
  • 15x7 with 205/50 Bridgestone RE-11

The only ones I couldn't get to stop rubbing, none of which were bad enough for me to take them off the car:
  • 225/50 BFG GFS rubs front fender liner at the outer lip
  • 225/50 Hoosier A6 rubs only on the rear shock dust boot
  • 205/60 General Altimax Arctic rubs front fender liner on the inner side at full lock and hard cornering
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