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Old 02-24-2011, 12:10 AM   #31
1bille1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedgreyzx3 View Post
mods please clean up thread, this thread is about OE and copper spark plugs, not rediculously expesnive designer spark plugs that there is little to no evidence or testing done on them and only claims by the manufacture.
They're cheaper than the dealer offerings at $18 a pop...
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Old 02-24-2011, 12:17 AM   #32
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I'm running 103's in my 09. I gapped to 60 and my car HATED it. I did not run well at all. There was a loss in power and it idled like garbage. I dropped it to 55 and it runs like a champ.
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Old 02-24-2011, 12:20 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedgreyzx3 View Post
mods please clean up thread, this thread is about OE and copper spark plugs, not rediculously expesnive designer spark plugs that there is little to no evidence or testing done on them and only claims by the manufacture.
Sorry about that man. As I stated earlier, only 3 plugs have ever been tested side by side (remember weapon x? lol, the 25$ apiece 1hp gain plug).
stock, 103's and wx, no others.
actually running 103s in the 07, idles a tad rough but otherwise everything seems good. rough idle may be a combo of the steeda sri and plugs, have to do a little looking into on plug gap and see if that fixes it.
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Old 02-24-2011, 12:45 AM   #34
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I take it billie pretty much quoted from the nology and brisk ads....
Let me quote from page 798, volume 1/ 8th edition of the
"Metals Handbook" published by the American Society for Metals( copyright 1961)...
"resistivity, ohms per circular mil-ft
( theres a chart)
Silver 9.56,
Copper 10.06"

On page 1181 of the same text( this may or may not be relevant)
" Silver has a high degree of resistance to hot concentrated organic acids..."

I believe combustion byproducts can tend to be acidic, and why motor oils are alkaline - to counteract same acids that migrate into the oil over time...
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Old 02-24-2011, 06:37 AM   #35
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Sorry, when changing plugs becomes more than changing my own oil, rationally I need to go to a cheaper plug. Regardless of how soon they need changed.
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Old 02-24-2011, 07:03 AM   #36
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As for the Metal Society text being out of date, I will admit it's old.

I was not aware that there's a new type of silver compared to 50 years ago, -and that is not the best conductor of heat or electricity.
My apologies for not knowing that old knowledge is not worth knowing.

So , to my detractors, where's info refuting anything I've said. Please show me the error in my thinking. If Cu is a better conductor than Ag, surely there must be a link, so that we can correct Google, Wiki, the entire semiconductor industry and the American Society for Metals- which reminds me- in what latter edition of that voluminous text( It takes up 2 feet of my bookshelf) are the obviously incorrect properties of silver corrected and in which they hail Cu as the best conductor?.

Last edited by warneej; 02-24-2011 at 08:47 PM. Reason: Off topic
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Old 02-24-2011, 07:40 AM   #37
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Well, since Tungsten has the highest melting point, it doesn't mean all steel should be made with it.
Similarly, even if silver is the best conductor, doesn't mean it should be used for all applications.

Thanks again to wicked for the great info on page 1.
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Old 02-24-2011, 08:36 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by 1bille1 View Post
I'm sorry that's incorrect.

Silver has the higest conductance, lowest resistance, and highest thermal conductivity of any metal.

Melting points for copper/silver are aprox. 1900F and 1700 F, respectively. Since EGT's run several hundred degrees F below that, and actual sparkplug temps well below EGT - worries about it wearing away are pretty groundless.


http://www.kitco.com/jewelry/meltingpoints.html

Not to get into a pissing match, if you know anything about electronics, to ensure the best connection and conductivity you plate things in gold. But I am guessing you are a mechanic (or some one that turns wrenches or sells parts) not an electronic engineer.
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Old 02-24-2011, 10:48 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedgreyzx3 View Post
mods please clean up thread, this thread is about OE and copper spark plugs, not rediculously expesnive designer spark plugs that there is little to no evidence or testing done on them and only claims by the manufacture.
He has a right to his opinion, even if he can't take a hint that we got the point 10 posts ago. If he wants to go and spend the money on silver plugs- let him. The rest of us will get what's easily available. We went through the same thing with Mr Force Powered Focus until a dyno proved him wrong.

To clarify: yes silver is the best conductor, copper is 98%, silver is considered 100% as a baseline, gold is 65% or so right around aluminum. It's desirable in electronics not for conductance but for resistance to corrosion, oxidation, and EM interference. It's just not cost effective. Silver was used for bus bars at the Oak Ridge Nuclear Power plant in TN. I know a few old-timers that worked there in the late 40's.

To clarify more on what's being said: Make a point, and be done with it. If people dispute your point, ok. If you keep making a point over and over again you end up looking like a politician who's down in the polls and has to scream to get attention. Too often it seems that people get really insulted when someone on the internet doesn't agree with them. I think it's because they won't argue anything in real life face to face so they become e-thuggish.

Unless there's insulting or off thread comments, I can't just come in here and delete opinions. Now start talking about how herpes affects your spark plugs, and I might edit that.
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Old 02-24-2011, 11:28 AM   #40
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Thanks to Wicked for some really good information about spark plugs.

You've been on this forum for long enough, you should know by now that any thread on spark plugs will end up like this. There is simply too much half-science information out there on the subject, and too many theories and marketing without independent dynos to back up the claims. It's confusing to everyone. Even TurboTom's dyno tests were done on AR plugs, not A or AP plugs, and the gain was 4 hp not 5.

Your heat range information was mostly correct, although the reason colder plugs work better has more to do with low quality fuel and the high compression of our engines than the spark plugs themselves. Lower heat range plugs produce more power on low octane fuel because spark knock is decreased, timing is not pulled, and therefore you get more power.

There's also a difference you barely scraped on about what the short length of the back-strap. I'm only mentioning that because there are so many things that make up a good plug, or make more power out of a plug. Multi back-strap plugs, for example, are marketed as producing multiple sparks, but this doesn't jive with basic electrical theory of seeking the path of least resistance. What it does is offer more than one resistive path so that if one path becomes more resistant, spark goes to the lower resistant path. That would make these plugs more reliable in the long term.

Finally, nobody has mentioned that the actual conductor at the tip of every spark plug is neither copper nor silver in any case. It's always the same- a nickel/iron alloy. The difference is in the core itself. On the platinum/iridium side, most platinum plugs are copper core plugs with coated tips/back-straps. In a few cases, a small point of p/i is the center conductor. This offers a more reliable sparking point in the situation where fouling is reduced because of the metal used at the tip.

Now if everyone would please stop trying to make points that have already been made and sway everyone to your specific opinion. It's completely pointless and no e-thug is going to learn anything from another e-thug. It just ends up in horribly childish banter that doesn't promote anything but wasted bits on the server. I can't clean it up and delete everything that doesn't agree with the OP because that's a violation of free speech. Everyone has a right to their opinion, and everyone has a right to not change that opinion if they don't wish to.

The bottom line is that spark plugs are very important, and horribly misunderstood most of the time because there are so many factors besides the actual makeup of the plug. Companies out there who want to make a buck abuse this lack of general knowledge by promoting science half based in verifiable facts.

So who's going to start an oil thread now?
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