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Old 12-27-2010, 11:00 AM   #31
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^^^^^^What does that mean? Help me see where you're coming from.
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Old 12-27-2010, 01:34 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goinloco1 View Post
The military has its own set of laws completely seperate from civilian law, the two are not combined.
Rob a store the state gets you first, then the military. It's the only area in the US where double jeopardy can take place for crimes.
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So should I be allowed to shower with females then? I won't look, I promise . I'll just shower and get out. I'm attracted to females the same way gay guys are attracted to other guys. Should I be allowed to bunk with females when deployed as well? Since you weren't in the military, I can see why you don't see this as an issue. Especially when deployed for months on end, sexual frustration only gets worse. Now put all of those people together and see where the focus goes. It's human nature.

For months and months I did not have a shower to myself. Every morning it was wait your turn and get in and get out. Some days it was, "Screw it, where are my baby wipes." It was already uncomfortable as it was. And do I think every gay guy would be checking me out, hell no. But the possibility exists now especially when they can serve openly. There are a whole host of things that have to be hammered out with this issue in particular.
You're both acting like your fellow soldiers are somehow so unprofessional and won't be able to control themselves just because they are openly gay. Onlyford4me, that's only because of our social norms that say women and men should be separate and shouldn't see one another naked. Showering openly with females would be an eye opener the first few times, but after a while you would adapt. It's like being in a nudist colony or watching American TV vs European TV. You get used to seeing people naked in a non-sexual context and it's no longer an issue. Are you going to have the one-off type of person that will do something inappropiate? Quite probably, you will. It should be handled as a case of harassment just like it would be between a male and female. Gays shouldn't be treated any differently and that goes both ways. They shouldn't be making unwanted sexual advances to you and claims made by heterosexual soldiers against homosexual soldiers who do should be taken very seriously and punishment should be severe.

At the end of the day though, it's a job that people, both gay or straight, bravely, but voluntarily signed up for. There is always turmoil when major changes take place. Wasn't there similar arguments made about women serving onboard Naval ships? Now, I see that they are going to be letting women serve on submarines soon (albeit at the officer level). Women are supposed to be barred from combat, but that line seems to be getting blurred all the time. I'm sure back in the '50s there were plenty of white soldiers that were just as uneasy when blacks were integrated too. Were there growing pains? Yes, but by and large the military made it work. Adapability is one of the military's great strengths. I see no reason why they can't make this work. You've already been working side by side with gay soldiers they just weren't out of the closet. I'm not sure if I understand this thinking that just because they can openly say they are gay that now they are going to be doing all kinds of fruity stuff to you instead of continuing to be professional soldiers.
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:52 PM   #33
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Yes, all the adminstrative and legal aspects will remain the same, but when it comes to the general public of the Military, there will still be a large amount of people that just don't agree with or even down right hate this idea. I just hope the whole issue of gay bashing doesn't reoccur. There are some people that can get violent against gays and, yes, any incident that occurs will be handled appropriately, but how will this affect the general public? Who knows, I guess we will find out.
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Old 12-27-2010, 04:34 PM   #34
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not tryint to gloat, but it just deosnt seem right...my opinion... id rather have left it all alone...
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Old 12-27-2010, 11:08 PM   #35
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the only problem i have with it is in my field specifically. im a chaplain assistant and i feel that some chaplains may take this as an opportunity to try and "convert" homosexuals into being straight, refuse to council military members who are out, or give them advice that could hurt them. i know you guys probably think chaplains are great people and wouldn't do anything like this, but i work for these awful people and i know otherwise. other than that all i have to say is...

YESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
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Old 12-28-2010, 03:08 AM   #36
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Quote:
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You're both acting like your fellow soldiers are somehow so unprofessional and won't be able to control themselves just because they are openly gay. Onlyford4me, that's only because of our social norms that say women and men should be separate and shouldn't see one another naked. Showering openly with females would be an eye opener the first few times, but after a while you would adapt. It's like being in a nudist colony or watching American TV vs European TV.
I don't think I even hinted at the fact that gays wouldn't control themselves. And I agree that it's because of our social norms that we don't shower together and bunk together. We are America and that is our culture. We keep it as professional as we can in the American (not European) military. My argument against gays in the military is only until we figure out how we will overcome the issues I mentioned earlier. And having blacks in the military isn't even close to the same thing as this. I would say that the showering, bunking and deployment issues are where the problems are going to be. I couldn't care less if someone was gay if it went no further than working with them. But the military culture forces us at a lot of points in our career to live with and become intimate (in a non-sexual way) with many people. Keeping people separate that who are attracted to each other eliminates a whole host of problems. If this is a good idea, why didn't the military do this on its own? Why did it take an act of Congress to force them to do this?
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Old 12-28-2010, 03:59 PM   #37
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I'm sure back in the '50s there were plenty of white soldiers that were just as uneasy when blacks were integrated too. Were there growing pains? Yes, but by and large the military made it work. Adapability is one of the military's great strengths.
Well said.

I put my penis in a woman at night, some guys put their penis in men at night. No matter what your preferences are, someone is getting &ucked. Not sure why it matters what sex that person is.

The expression "what another man eats doesn't make me ish" applies here. Nobody is affected by this, well the media and the people that have to do the paper work to overturn this....but that's it.

Did the military make is acceptable to have straight sex in more than just missionary position. That is a more logical "rule" to abolish, because in the past it has been frowned upon to do doggy and stuff. Not sure why though.
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Old 12-28-2010, 06:37 PM   #38
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Quote:
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You're both acting like your fellow soldiers are somehow so unprofessional and won't be able to control themselves just because they are openly gay.
actually I was replying to the question about the military accepting gay marriage. not all states recognise it, so most likely the military won't either since each have their own set of laws. But thanks for reading into things anyway...
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:34 AM   #39
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I don't have a problem fighting beside anyone so long as they can aim, shoot, and carry my ass out of the kill zone if I go down. I expect the same from everyone. As long as they can do it, I don't care how the hell they decide to live their life.
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Old 01-05-2011, 07:06 AM   #40
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Wasn't there similar arguments made about women serving onboard Naval ships? Now, I see that they are going to be letting women serve on submarines soon (albeit at the officer level).
The thing that cracks me up about this..............the craziest, sluttiest, most drinking, and swore the most were female officers. One snuck into my room just about every night and tore me up................She was a LT and I was an E-5..........loved every minute of it.
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