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Old 06-15-2011, 02:54 PM   #761
apagios
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacAttack View Post
As far as I'm concerned, revoknuckle is just a name. As long as they implement something that doesn't sacrifice power for control over torque steer, I'll be extremely happy.
+1. I have not seen any mention of the revoknuckle for the ST in the news. So I was kind of assuming they would use the torque shift from the new Focus? Though I haven't researched the specifics on how that was implemented.

Regardless I am going to toss out my opinion of: Who cares about torque steer? If you were otherwise enamored with the new Focus ST enough seriously consider buying it, would torque steer really be a deal breaker? AWD from the WRX would likely be a much more positive reason to pick a WRX over a Focus ST, then torque steer on the ST being a negative reason not to buy it. Price is another factor which will have a much greater impact on my decision then a little toque steer once in a while.

I pushed a friends 2010 MS3 hard specifically trying to find this "horrendous torque steer" all the auto journalists keep complaining about. Pretty much every review says the same caveated praise: "it's the best performance bang for your buck, but you have to deal with torque steer"

It's really not that bad. If you know it's coming it's relatively easy to compensate, and frankly on the street I wouldn't plan to be shifting at max boost while in a hard turn anyway. I can see the issue for a dedicated track car, but if you are pushing hard enough that torque steer on the MS3 causes a serious issue and risking loss of control, then you very likely should be on a track anyway. I am all for a spirited fun drive, but public roads are nto the place to drive 10/10ths, and I personally don't feel torque steer is a huge issue on a spirited 7 or 8/10ths pace.

Don't get me wrong I'd love for it to be compensated for in a manner that does not sap power. But I just don't think torque steer as big an issue as the media has made it out to be for the MS3.

So that said, no revoknuckle is not a deal breaker on the ST for me
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Old 06-15-2011, 03:03 PM   #762
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Also I'd like to point out that I think there is sometimes some confusion between tires "tram lining" or various alignment/suspension issues and torque steer.

I have definitely read comments on this forum of people driving base Focii with no forced induction claiming that they have "horrible torque steer." If i can't get my SVTF to have any noticeable torque steer, then I guarantee, unless you turbo or supercharge a base focus you are not feeling "torque steer."

Anyway, I just don't think that torque steer will be that big an issue in daily driving a Focus ST.
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Old 06-15-2011, 06:40 PM   #763
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No, torque steer wouldn't be a huge deal breaker for me, I'm obsessed with this car lol.
I never noticed it in my stock 2000 Focus SE, but after getting a tune, I sometimes feel a little when it shifts. Nothing to complain about, but then again, I've got a lot less HP under the hood.

I'm just hoping that if Ford does something, it's a mechanical solution that doesn't reduce power, not something like the torque vectoring control on the current 2012 Focus, which uses braking.
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Old 06-15-2011, 09:52 PM   #764
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I found the article I was talking about:

Quote:
So does that mean the Focus ST will get the RevoKnuckle suspension? Capito is noncommittal, but hints at something related. “What is clear is that everything we’ve learned we will use. Not necessarily with the same parts but the same results.” Capito also explains that, for performance vehicles, a mechanical solution is the only way to solve powertrain or handling issues. Don’t expect a brake-based, electronic “limited-slip” system on the ST, like the one included on all other Focii. “A high-performance car shouldn’t use electronics to overcome mechanical inefficiencies.”
http://blog.caranddriver.com/ford%E2...-trickle-down/

It's quite possible that they have tuned it out by limiting boost and power in 1st and 2nd. A little torque steer is fine, but a mechanical fix of some kind would be nice to have. I read another article somewhere that indicated they are targeting best-in-class fuel economy as well. There's plenty of hype for this car, that's for sure...
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Old 06-15-2011, 10:13 PM   #765
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At least they seem to have ruled out the lame brake-based electronic "LSD".
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Old 06-16-2011, 02:34 PM   #766
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+1 on good to hear about no lame braking.

Is that really how the "torque vectoring" works on the new 2012 focus? I need to research it out of curiosity, if so, uber lame.
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Old 06-16-2011, 02:44 PM   #767
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http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010...ats-in-a-name/
-------------------------------
"Ford’s system gathers data from vehicle sensors to apply nominal braking force to the wheel with the least amount of traction — generally the one toward the inside of a corner. Differential gearing, which allows one wheel to turn faster than another in cornering, distributes more torque to the wheel that is rotating at higher speed. Thus, braking the inside wheel directs additional torque to the outside wheel."

...

"Rather than employing the vehicle’s brakes to alter torque distribution, other systems tend to employ computer-controlled clutches within one or more gear differentials to precisely alter torque distribution — particularly on all-wheel-drive vehicles. However, Porsche, like Ford, has already used brake actuation to redirect torque on its 911 Turbo and Turbo S sports cars.

Some critics argue that only systems that employ differential clutches should wear the torque-vectoring label. Mr. Hughes said that while developing the Focus’ system, the brand “looked at several different premium vehicles.” He did not, however, humor the debate. “I believe we achieved a good balance of confident control and improved handling,” he said."
-------------------------------
Sadness, I am no longer excited about "Torque Vectoring Control."

I had honestly assumed that minor braking action combined with an LSD didn't really count as "torque vectoring" but that a clutch type system which woul divide torque to one wheel or the other would be considered "vectoring." Seems like a debate of semantics.

If it achieved the goal of handling prowess and did so cheaply enough to include in a Focus then I suppose that is the real win. I presume an active torque split system would be too pricey to include in a car like the Focus. It is at least some comfort to know Porsche uses the same technique on the 911 Turbo, it gives some credence to the system if it can be tuned properly and utilized in a $100k sports car.
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Old 07-06-2011, 11:07 AM   #768
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I really wish Ford would release more information on this. The suspense is killing me.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:35 PM   #769
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come on Ford, bring out the REVOKNUCKLE!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacAttack View Post
I'm just hoping that if Ford does something, it's a mechanical solution that doesn't reduce power, not something like the torque vectoring control on the current 2012 Focus, which uses braking.
I 2nd that^! No eletronic's, It's got to be mechanical= like a REVOKNUCKLE, FORD!!!!! If they are asking for that kind of money! At the very least at least a TORSEN, at the very least! I already have a brake grabbing T/C, some I added a Torsen= big difference, no just straight either, awesome around corner's too! Point the wheel & hold on!
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Old 07-07-2011, 05:24 AM   #770
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Is anybody getting any updated information on when orders can begin getting placed?
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