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Old 10-09-2010, 10:11 AM   #351
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Woot!...

and just a note... I stopped modding my cougar to enevitably pay for this orange goblin...

I totally agree in a performance model, they should do it right, right from the begining.

the "extra" cost should be covered by the premium we pay for the vehicle.

if there is no compromise. There is no reason not to buy it.

Now, the worst case scenario... I take delivery of my new Focus ST and a week later they anounce the hybrid ST... I would cry

So, I will probably "order" the car in august 2011... take delivery in who knows... say october... just to avoid missery...

the rumored hybrid could be a contender... and would no doubt be a fast and practical daily. 250bhp+90bhp=340bhp... this could tread on Mustang GT ground. It'll will surely show up the V6

the 90hp will have almost no drivetrain loss. the 250 will be the FWD setup like in the ST.


but not many would spring for a $30K focus. Though if the word got out that, that it got 30+mpg in the city and 30+ on the highway, and had 340 net horsepower... and looked awesome inside and out... (inside makes up for the out )... it could sell
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Old 10-10-2010, 12:43 PM   #352
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nice focus...

only if it come with an powershift auto like it came with the fiesta, then i will be all over it.. otherwise I am not getting this one. potiential 30K focus for just 250 hp? Ford could have done better.
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Old 10-10-2010, 03:53 PM   #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaveBlue83 View Post
the new sportback ralliart lancer is coming out with AWD and turbo doing over 250hp, should be interesting to see what does better.
It will be more competition for the WRX than the ST. The MazdaSpeed 3 and Dodge Caliber are more in the same class as the Focus ST.
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Old 10-10-2010, 05:11 PM   #354
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It will be more competition for the WRX than the ST. The MazdaSpeed 3 and Dodge Caliber are more in the same class as the Focus ST.
They are all techinically in the "same class" as far as car magazines go, but I agree with what you are saying. Most people that will look at the ST will look at the MS3 and Caliber SRT4.
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Old 10-11-2010, 11:45 PM   #355
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I hate it when everyone says "I won't buy it if it doesn't have AWD"... as if it could cure stupid.

anyway... I am a hardcore FWD guy... If I build a drag car it would be RWD. If I had to travel across a frozen landscape I'd get 4WD...

not to hate on subie's or anything like that... but those crying for AWD (On more than this forum) are just boy racers who think that every intersection has a tree and a new challange waiting for them. AWD helps you out of the hole... its not going to make you faster...

I agree that they are more suited for some things than RWD/FWD...
If you have the money, and the want of an AWD car by all means... go and buy one.

but don't take a car that is the definition of a daily beater.... and project your fantasies of full mechanical AWD onto it... Okay?

I am not about to watch a focus get pigged out with almost useless stuff. If you want AWD push for the Hybrid... not some mechanical nonsense. It adds ~90bhp and about 100#s... where with the conventional setup all you get is the weight coupled with drivetrain losses...

It would be fast enough... with 337bhp...electric motor pushing in the rear. Conventional motor pulling the front. It could be a monster, and get good marks at the pump.
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Old 10-12-2010, 01:08 AM   #356
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Posted via FF Mobile Screw it, these guys are right. Ford, shove in AWD to make it a "true" rally car. Oh yea then you need to increase the power because of the added weight and drivetrain loss, so youll have to raise the boost more. Oh yea now you got to upgrade the internals alot more so that the engine can handle all the boost and then some so you dont have foci in the warranty section of the shop all the time. Oh wait, your saying you have to increase the price now? Oh....well I guess get rid of the sync and the sony sound system, the rain sensing wipers, and all those other tech bits that you usually dont find on a car in this price range. Wait, seriously...THATS STILL THE PRICE OF THE CAR???? alright well then just throw cheaper materials into the interior and some hard plastics. Whats the gas mileage on this thing, 30mpg? No? only 20...oh well. Whatever right, as long as its fast and awd nothing else matters because Ill be so fast out of the hole, ill be rapping vettes and ferarri's and Ill be the best driver ever because of my awd and will be able to drive 60mph in the left lane on the snow covered highway while everyone else is piled up. Understeer you say? Pssh, that wont stop me because Ill drive through that grass and gravel because I got me some AWDBitcheezzz!!!!












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Old 10-12-2010, 07:20 AM   #357
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There's a saying that goes, "You gotta pay to play." And it definitely applies to automobiles. Faster cars are more expensive to maintain, consume more fuel, and have higher insurance rates. The Focus ST isn't going to be some magical exception.

The argument for better fuel economy is moot. If you're putting down close to (or more than) 30k for a car, fuel economy is the least of your worries. You'll know from the very beginning that the car will run on higher octane gas. You simply don't buy a faster car for its fuel economy, period. I'm not saying it shouldn't be possible, but if you're truly serious about fuel economy there are better options out there than a sport trim Focus.

There will never be a true substitute to AWD. Cars tend to grip better when they dig deep into the ground, not float above it. When you throw a light FWD car into snow/dirt/gravel, you're guaranteed to get dangerous levels of understeer. The heavier STI/EVO actually take what is perceived as a negative trait (weight) and make it work towards their advantage by providing grip and stability.

Now you could argue that the Focus ST isn't supposed to be a dedicated "rally" race car. And you might be right. I think it would fit in more as a direct competitor to the MazdaSpeed3. I guess it all depends on the driving experience you're looking for. I just think it's wrong to categorize the Focus with the AWD imports, despite what popular car magazines do in stupid comparison tests. It really is apples and oranges.

Personally I'd still be leaning towards the imports more because I'd rather have something that's a little more bare bones and better handling in every possible road/weather condition. But I can understand the appeal for people who just want something fast and luxurious too... and that's completely fine too.
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Old 10-12-2010, 09:11 AM   #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmoose View Post
There's a saying that goes, "You gotta pay to play." And it definitely applies to automobiles. Faster cars are more expensive to maintain, consume more fuel, and have higher insurance rates. The Focus ST isn't going to be some magical exception.

The argument for better fuel economy is moot. If you're putting down close to (or more than) 30k for a car, fuel economy is the least of your worries. You'll know from the very beginning that the car will run on higher octane gas. You simply don't buy a faster car for its fuel economy, period. I'm not saying it shouldn't be possible, but if you're truly serious about fuel economy there are better options out there than a sport trim Focus.

There will never be a true substitute to AWD. Cars tend to grip better when they dig deep into the ground, not float above it. When you throw a light FWD car into snow/dirt/gravel, you're guaranteed to get dangerous levels of understeer. The heavier STI/EVO actually take what is perceived as a negative trait (weight) and make it work towards their advantage by providing grip and stability.

Now you could argue that the Focus ST isn't supposed to be a dedicated "rally" race car. And you might be right. I think it would fit in more as a direct competitor to the MazdaSpeed3. I guess it all depends on the driving experience you're looking for. I just think it's wrong to categorize the Focus with the AWD imports, despite what popular car magazines do in stupid comparison tests. It really is apples and oranges.

Personally I'd still be leaning towards the imports more because I'd rather have something that's a little more bare bones and better handling in every possible road/weather condition. But I can understand the appeal for people who just want something fast and luxurious too... and that's completely fine too.
I had to throw this out there... ecoboost will allow for regular... just at a power cost...(don't know for the future ST, but the current SHO)

and estimates are starting at 25K-27K...

I think the hybrid transmission is better then everything we have out there atm (for street use).

this:


and its still a hybrid...



most of the cars you'd be looking at would probably be at a cost 5K above what the ST might cost you... and you have every right to pay for it. Not everyone can afford a conventional AWD car (besides the initial cost).

and just a note... laws of physics don't change just because your car has an AWD badge on it.


besides launching... and some advantage in some twisties... AWD performs 98% the same under driving conditions as a FWD car would...

but[YOUTUBE]<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZZL8uPemi3k?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZZL8uPemi3k?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]
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Old 10-12-2010, 09:15 AM   #359
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I am having trouble posting normally for whatever reason... but here
YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.



also Ecoboost runs regular...
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Old 10-12-2010, 10:10 AM   #360
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Cool video. I'm not saying the new Focus will be a terrible car by any means. But strictly speaking in terms of a rally setting (which is what the Focus is better known for in global motorsports), I think AWD will have a clear advantage. Otherwise it'll still make an outstanding street car that will give the MazdaSpeed3 some serious competition. That's why I think it stands out in a class of its own, versus the STI/EVO everyone is comparing it to.

YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Are there any links that detail the 2012 Focus ST's EcoBoost engine? I can't find anything on Google, aside from vague press releases. I'm not aware of too many turbocharged cars that run 87 octane. Actually I can't name any off the top of my head. I'd be impressed if what you say is true. I have a feeling that you're referring to a "flex fuel" type setup, which still means the engine isn't tuned to optimally run on 87 anyway. If that's the case it still seems assbackwards to pay close to 30k for a car and run it with 3/4 of its max potential performance. ;-)
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