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Old 05-04-2010, 06:04 PM   #71
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No, I don't like that. The pin is made out of good stuff I'm sure, but I wouldn't put a big side load on it. It looks like the side of the counterweb should rotate CW (with the piston moving up some from BDC) enough to allow clearance to fully seat the pin......but a photo isn't the same as the real thing, and we don't know the Zetec varient in the photo. I hate quessing. Have you tried the short pin? You can't find a nice small, bright LED torch (or MAG light), and mirror, and have a peek? No Euro Zetec experts around? So the flywheel lock definitely isn't useable?
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Old 05-04-2010, 07:25 PM   #72
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Posted via FF MobileThat rope trick mentioned.... I`ve done it on motorcycle engines... 1/4 " rooe worked.... if all else fails... get enough into cyl. on compression stroke that piston stops well b4 top - better leverage for locking... reduces head pressure ... lots of leverage against head if it stops just b4 tdc - thats why more rope is good...
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Old 05-04-2010, 08:40 PM   #73
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I don't think that you want to be either holding a piston, or hydraulicing a cylinder when applying maybe 300 ft/lbs of torque to this four banger's crank. I know of engines (admittedly long stroke radial and inverted aircraft engines) that could suffer a bent connecting/link rod (and they are made out of "really" good stuff!) when the engine was simply cranked over with the starter, and coming to a quick halt because oil in a lower cylinder (with time oil tended to drain past the piston rings to the top of the lower cylinders after shutdown) had not been cleared out prior to cranking it over. I don't think this would happen here for a couple of reasons, but I wouldn't risk it.
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Old 05-04-2010, 09:12 PM   #74
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the_doc735.......If you can rotate the crank so that the piston is around the BDC position, and if you can get a look through the pin hole to see if you can find that (or a) vertical, flat surface on the counterweight that is directly in line (must be perpendicular) with the hole, insert a rod/stick/anything and make a mark inline with the outside surface of the block at the hole. Use that measurement to cut/grind the pin to length. I suppose you could also just get a length of "good" steel rod with a diameter just smaller that the hole thread and if you can find the appropriate perpendicular flat surface maybe it would be possible to "solidly" backup/jam the outside end of the steel rod solidly (and square) enough to hold the crank. I'm a nervous nelly as well thinking about the load on the block sidewall/hole threads etc. when applying the huge loosening/breakaway torque that this puppy appears to require.
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Old 05-05-2010, 07:52 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
No, I don't like that. The pin is made out of good stuff I'm sure, but I wouldn't put a big side load on it. It looks like the side of the counterweb should rotate CW (with the piston moving up some from BDC) enough to allow clearance to fully seat the pin......but a photo isn't the same as the real thing, and we don't know the Zetec varient in the photo. I hate quessing. Have you tried the short pin? You can't find a nice small, bright LED torch (or MAG light), and mirror, and have a peek? No Euro Zetec experts around? So the flywheel lock definitely isn't useable?
I don't know the shape/profile of the counterweight in the zetec SE "FYDB" engine and I would like to see a picture/diagram or [outline] drawing of this component if anyone has one or can even draw one? It almost feels like the sides of the counterweight are NOT flat/straight but curved diagonally from top to bottom [with no abrupt angle surfaces] i.e. a smooth curve?

You are right! ~ the picture may not be the "FYDB" derivative of the zetec SE engine at all? And I also don't like quessing either - LOL! Don't fancy having to take the sump off to get a bent pin out! Lol. Oh dear this is really bad. I feel intimidated and apprehensive about attacking the crank bolt with that pin now, whatever its position maybe! Could it even break part of the counterweight off with the side loading perhaps? Sounds worse than bumping the starter against the floor? LOL! Scratch head

The locking pin is the same length as the timing pin. There is also a longer timing pin that is chamfered at the end [like a point]. Three 'pins' in total, there is no shorter pin?

The flywheel tool? I'm just going by what it says on the pack [i.e. the engine codes] - mine isn't listed [FYDB].
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:06 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by a_2000_se View Post
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Ok - how about locking up the piston in the cylinder, head still installed?:

- I read, someone here uses thin rope inserted into the spark plug hole

OR -

- Again on the compression stroke, fill the cylinder with motor oil. I haven't figured out what the conversion is for 'PSI to ft-lbs' in a 1.6 liter engine. Don't exceed the rated compression of your cylinder. You might get a little smoke when you start it up - again, depending on how long you let the oil drain past the rings?

It doesn't appear you are in a hurry?

This is fun......
the rope and the oil are worthy of consideration, thanks for that one! Let's just say I can't afford to rush or hurry this process; I'm not "throwing caution to the wind" ~ LOL.

This is fun? ~ this made me laugh, thanks for injecting a little humour into this scenario LOL.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:17 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Posted via FF MobileThat rope trick mentioned.... I`ve done it on motorcycle engines... 1/4 " rooe worked.... if all else fails... get enough into cyl. on compression stroke that piston stops well b4 top - better leverage for locking... reduces head pressure ... lots of leverage against head if it stops just b4 tdc - thats why more rope is good...
Thanks for those pointers, I'm considering it!
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:20 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
I don't think that you want to be either holding a piston, or hydraulicing a cylinder when applying maybe 300 ft/lbs of torque to this four banger's crank. I know of engines (admittedly long stroke radial and inverted aircraft engines) that could suffer a bent connecting/link rod (and they are made out of "really" good stuff!) when the engine was simply cranked over with the starter, and coming to a quick halt because oil in a lower cylinder (with time oil tended to drain past the piston rings to the top of the lower cylinders after shutdown) had not been cleared out prior to cranking it over. I don't think this would happen here for a couple of reasons, but I wouldn't risk it.
Oh!!!
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:28 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
the_doc735.......If you can rotate the crank so that the piston is around the BDC position, and if you can get a look through the pin hole to see if you can find that (or a) vertical, flat surface on the counterweight that is directly in line (must be perpendicular) with the hole, insert a rod/stick/anything and make a mark inline with the outside surface of the block at the hole. Use that measurement to cut/grind the pin to length. I suppose you could also just get a length of "good" steel rod with a diameter just smaller that the hole thread and if you can find the appropriate perpendicular flat surface maybe it would be possible to "solidly" backup/jam the outside end of the steel rod solidly (and square) enough to hold the crank. I'm a nervous nelly as well thinking about the load on the block sidewall/hole threads etc. when applying the huge loosening/breakaway torque that this puppy appears to require.
I don't know the shape/profile of the counterweight in the zetec SE "FYDB" engine and I would like to see a picture/diagram or [outline] drawing of this component if anyone has one or can even draw one? It almost feels like the sides of the counterweight are NOT flat/straight but curved diagonally from top to bottom [with no abrupt angle surfaces] i.e. a smooth curve?

You are right! ~ the picture may not be the "FYDB" derivative of the zetec SE engine at all? And I also don't like quessing either - LOL! Don't fancy having to take the sump off to get a bent pin out! Lol. Oh dear this is really bad. I feel intimidated and apprehensive about attacking the crank bolt with that pin now, whatever its position maybe! Could it even break part of the counterweight off with the side loading perhaps? Sounds worse than bumping the starter against the floor? LOL! Scratch head
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Old 05-05-2010, 10:41 AM   #80
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Posted via FF MobileFamiliar with the aircraft scenario, WWII aircraft often had engines hand cranked B4 starting to "clear" cylinders... The damage scenario in my understanding was from a quick fire on one cyl. then hydrolocking on another.... Current procedure to prevent is cranking with mags off before starting... So - not to worry as no cranking with plugs & wires hooked up right? (on those radials, hydrolock or a timing misfire (early) could sometimes blow a jug right off!)
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