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Old 05-02-2010, 05:49 PM   #51
the_doc735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
your situation seems abnormal and the methods suggested can't hurt anything but the bolt you're trying to remove....
what choice do I have, the car can no longer be moved until the new belt is fitted?
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Old 05-02-2010, 05:52 PM   #52
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I found the photo of your referenced tool kit and it appears that the "locking" pin is shorter than the "locating" pin which makes sense because I believe that the locking pin has to be contacting the crank web/counterweight in a different location because you'll be trying to rotate the crank in a counterclockwise direction when loosening the pulley bolt, as opposed to a clockwise direction when locating the crankshaft for timing the cams. My concern was because of these photos in post #4 here: http://passionford.com/forum/technic...cking-kit.html
so how do I use the crankshaft locking pin, as opposed to the timing pin? i.e. at what point does the crank need to be set (if it's different to the timing setting)?

NOTE: I use the shorter timing pin in the kit; the photo illustrates the longer of the two timing pins http://passionford.com/forum/technic...cking-kit.html ~ therefore my crankshaft is somehow different to the one in the photo, but yet in the kit you get two timing pins but only one locking pin so both variants of crankshaft use the same locking pin length despite the fact that they have different timing pin lengths.

my engine code is: FYDB1/SCAD LC

I did ring my local ford main dealer/agent and they said that this information is not available to the general public!! "Outrageous or what?"
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Old 05-02-2010, 09:15 PM   #53
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As far as "locking" the crankshaft for countertorque purposes it doesn't matter what the location of crankshaft will be at, EXCEPT that you want to be using the correct pin, and it sure would be nice to know what the pin is supposed to be contacting on the crankshaft. The timing pin in the photo is used to locate the crank with the #1 piston at TDC (on the power stroke for cam timing purposes) by slowly rotating the crank clockwise until it (the machined flat) contacts the end of the pin as seen in the second photo. For countertorque you obviously have to have the crankshaft contact the socalled "locking" pin in the counterclockwise direction. I wonder if we are being fooled by the terms "locking" and "timing", and are these terms being used interchangeably? As you have suggested is it possible that the shorter pin in the kit is simply used with a different crankshaft/engine varient for "timing" purposes? How about the flywheel lock?
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Old 05-02-2010, 09:38 PM   #54
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Another method is to pressurize the cylinder.
If you have a compression test adapter (long hollow tube) you can get a fitting for an air compressor that threads into the tube to make a half-assed leak-down tester.
Fill the cylinder with air pressure, more the merrier, and that will help hold it in place. Far safer than using the starter (though I've done it that way too).
Just make sure the cylinder is at BDC, it'll center itself if it's anywhere but exact TDC so no real worries there.
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:50 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
As far as "locking" the crankshaft for countertorque purposes it doesn't matter what the location of crankshaft will be at,
Really? Are you sure?

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Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
you want to be using the correct pin,
Yes I certainly do! AND WILL!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
it sure would be nice to know what the pin is supposed to be contacting on the crankshaft?
This is the question I was asking you when I said: "at what point does the crank need to be set?"

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Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
The timing pin in the photo is used to locate the crank with the #1 piston at TDC (on the power stroke for cam timing purposes) by slowly rotating the crank clockwise until it (the machined flat) contacts the end of the pin as seen in the second photo
Yes I know, but the question is/was "at what point does the crank need to be set for locking with the pin?" (not timing).

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For countertorque you obviously have to have the crankshaft contact the so called "locking" pin in the counterclockwise direction.
True! But where?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
I wonder if we are being fooled by the terms "locking" and "timing", and are these terms being used interchangeably?
.

Absolutely not! ~ there is a distinct difference in the robustness between the timing pin and locking pin/tool and they have different catalogue part numbers and they each serve a different purpose and task. They may also be of different lengths as you suggested previously?

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As you have suggested is it possible that the shorter pin in the kit is simply used with a different crankshaft/engine varient for "timing" purposes
True.

Many thanks for your help and suggestions so far - cheers!
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:55 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iminhell View Post
Another method is to pressurize the cylinder.
If you have a compression test adapter (long hollow tube) you can get a fitting for an air compressor that threads into the tube to make a half-assed leak-down tester.
Fill the cylinder with air pressure, more the merrier, and that will help hold it in place. Far safer than using the starter (though I've done it that way too).
Just make sure the cylinder is at BDC, it'll center itself if it's anywhere but exact TDC so no real worries there.
That sounds like another fair method if I can make the pressure tool that is? How can the crank be at BDC and TDC similtaneously?

Many thanks - cheers!
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Old 05-03-2010, 12:04 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
As far as "locking" the crankshaft for countertorque purposes it doesn't matter what the location of crankshaft will be at
Quote:
Originally Posted by iminhell View Post
Just make sure the cylinder is at BDC, it'll center itself if it's anywhere but exact TDC so no real worries there.
How can the crank be at BDC and TDC simultaneously?
Also, "grumpy" says the position doesn't matter but "iminhell" says it does?

Many thanks - cheers!
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Old 05-03-2010, 12:35 PM   #58
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When/if you fill the cylinder with air pressure you'll not be able to hold the piston anywhere but BDC. The pressure will force the piston down.

If you want to keep the timing close you can pressurize either #2 or #3. Can't recall which but the valves on one will be closed and you'll be able to keep #1 at TDC.
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Old 05-03-2010, 01:05 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by iminhell View Post
"When you fill a cylinder with air pressure you'll not be able to hold the piston anywhere but BDC, the pressure will force the piston down" ...."it'll center itself if it's anywhere but exact TDC so no real worries there."
Is this a typo? Did you mean to write BDC where you wrote TDC?

Cheers!

PS: I don't have an air compressor by the way!
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Old 05-03-2010, 01:49 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
I found the photo of your referenced tool kit and it appears that the "locking" pin is shorter than the "locating" pin which makes sense because I believe that the locking pin has to be contacting the crank web/counterweight in a different location because you'll be trying to rotate the crank in a counterclockwise direction when loosening the pulley bolt, as opposed to a clockwise direction when locating the crankshaft for timing the cams.
my locking tool:
http://www.sealey.co.uk/PLPageBuilde...motionID=63315
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