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Old 05-12-2010, 04:44 PM   #181
the_doc735
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Originally Posted by sailor View Post
Posted via FF MobileYamaha Cycles usually have prying bosses &/or intentionally mismatched areas for separating cases, why did they make it hard on you here....
Oh yes! ~ I see now, there is a couple of tiny slots, one at the pulley end and one at the tranny end!

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Originally Posted by sailor View Post
To carry that further, look out for any possible reverse bolts (top down instead of bottom up) just in case.... Any threaded holes in the bottom that are empty or have short bolts that seem to do nothing? (removal jack bolt holes)
No reverse bolts on this one, amazingly as described in the haynes manual - they actually got it right! [for once].

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Originally Posted by sailor View Post
On cycle cases, rubber mallet tapping along sealing areas (vertically, not sideways) and on strong areas (like vertical sections) was often the method to break the seal - solid sound at first, when you heard it start "tapping" you knew there was a gap starting to form.
Thanx - I did use a rubber mallet to help loosen the seal which worked best at the tranny end - coz there is no rubber sealer on that bit [i.e. it just bolts up].

cheers!
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Old 05-12-2010, 04:49 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
Supposedly the sealant used was Loctite 5900.......low strength, black in colour. As sailor has suggested, look for any jack screw holes. You ARE sure that you've got all the bolts removed......no bolts from the clutch/tranny housing? As far as your fabricated wedges.......make the business end a convex shape, still with the knife like edge but curved somewhat which might make it easier to start into the splitline. Also, radius the corners about a 1/4"......maintaining the knife edge profile.
It is black sealant.

All bolts removed.

convex is a good idea but wasn't necessary in the end.

cheers!
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Old 05-12-2010, 04:52 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by mikeeshaq View Post
How about using a hot air gun? The type used to remove paint. I have used such a thing to soften up epoxy to remove stuff.
Good idea ~ I would have tried it next if the "built up 4 layers of blades" hadn't worked.

cheers!
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:30 PM   #184
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That's the windage tray.......make notes/mark everything as to location/orientation etc., including any different length bolts etc. How about a photo after it's removed.
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Old 05-13-2010, 08:57 AM   #185
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That's the windage tray.......make notes/mark everything as to location/orientation etc., including any different length bolts etc. How about a photo after it's removed.


I think it's bent DOWN and to the LEFT? [IN the picture]

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Old 05-13-2010, 11:59 AM   #186
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This has to be thought out carefully. Don't disturb any bolts or anything on the "girdle"/bearing caps right now. I wouldn't try to staighten it at this point because I can't see anything to lever against without doing damage. The same goes for trying to "wack or thump" it. Actually, it's not bent as much as I had envisioned. Is the problem the fact that the pin contacts the crankshaft hard.......not matter what? Or, just that the area of the threads is bent enough to cause the binding? This will be made worse because of the steel pin and Al crankcase (thread "pickup"), and you don't want to strip the threads. Can you rotate the pin in/out at all? If you can, do that while lubricating the threads from the outside and now obviously from this side. Slowly work the pin in/out (more out obviously) in small steps, adding lubrication (anything really "slippery")........engine oil.......silicone lube.......moly spray......anything that helps. If it really just won't move.......on to the next plan.
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Old 05-13-2010, 12:28 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
This has to be thought out carefully. Don't disturb any bolts or anything on the "girdle"/bearing caps right now.
OK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
I wouldn't try to staighten it at this point because I can't see anything to lever against without doing damage. The same goes for trying to "wack or thump" it.
OK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
Actually, it's not bent as much as I had envisioned. Is the problem the fact that the pin contacts the crankshaft hard.......not matter what? Or, just that the area of the threads is bent enough to cause the binding? This will be made worse because of the steel pin and Al crankcase (thread "pickup"), and you don't want to strip the threads.
The pin is NOT in contact with the crank at the moment, but the area of the threads is bent enough to cause the binding.

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Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
Can you rotate the pin in/out at all? If you can, do that while lubricating the threads from the outside and now obviously from this side. Slowly work the pin in/out (more out obviously) in small steps, adding lubrication (anything really "slippery")........engine oil.......silicone lube.......moly spray......anything that helps. If it really just won't move.......on to the next plan.
If I grip the head of the pin obscenely hard with locking pliers, I can turn it about 1/8th of a rotation [45%], then it binds. I have some ZX1 extralube http://www.team-zx1.com/Domestic-Cars which is really really "slippery"!

I could try to work it in/out again, but the hard pin seems to be just reshaping the thread in the soft alloy block [re-cutting it/stripping it] etc.





cheers

Last edited by the_doc735; 05-13-2010 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 05-13-2010, 02:58 PM   #188
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bad news! ~ the back 'n' forth [in and out] isn't working. If I continue it will probably destroy or distort the thread in the block! [or strip it].

...erm? what's plan 'B'?

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Old 05-13-2010, 10:57 PM   #189
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Is it an optical illusion or did the crankshaft actually contact the pin "properly" during the attempt to loosen the pulley bolt......but bent because of the large torque loads? Feel like cutting and grinding the head of the pin? If you can grab the pin and rotate it counterclockwise looking at it as in your photo, does the head of the pin seat/bottom out? I'm thinking that if you could cut/grind the head off the pin, do you think you could remove it by rotating it counterclockwise with your vice-grips? In other words, the bent area of the pin threads that is causing the binding would be coming towards you and moving out of the threads in the block and would no longer cause the binding. First back the pin out (head end outside the block) as much as you dare so that maybe you have access to the shank area under the head.
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Old 05-14-2010, 08:49 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
Is it an optical illusion or did the crankshaft actually contact the pin "properly" during the attempt to loosen the pulley bolt......
No its not an optical illusion - this must be how the pin contacted the piston counterweight when loosening the crank bolt. Well the piston counterweight didn't go past the pin, as we know the head sheared off the bolt instead - so that was a pretty good 'purchase' ~ yes? VERY STRONG PIN!


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Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
but bent because of the large torque loads?
Looks that way to me?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
Feel like cutting and grinding the head of the pin?
...what about the 'mating' surface for the 'plug' - it would get 'scored'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
If you can grab the pin and rotate it counterclockwise looking at it as in your photo, does the head of the pin seat/bottom out?
yes it does.


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Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
I'm thinking that if you could cut/grind the head off the pin, do you think you could remove it by rotating it counterclockwise with your vice-grips?
...there is a good chance that I could do that - yes. If you mean from inside the block. It's just there isn't much space to get the grips on, in there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
In other words, the bent area of the pin threads that is causing the binding would be coming towards you and moving out of the threads in the block and would no longer cause the binding.
...there is a good chance that I could do that - yes. If you mean from inside the block. It's just there isn't much space to get the grips on, in there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
First back the pin out (head end outside the block) as much as you dare so that maybe you have access to the shank area under the head.
I cant back it off enough to get access to the shank - so it would have to take a slice of the head with it unfortunately - making it double the thickness of course!

What about cutting on the inside now that I have managed to move the piston up to the top? Again - space permitting! Then there would be the problem of 'the shards' [from the cutting] inside the block!



Cheers!

Last edited by the_doc735; 05-14-2010 at 10:14 AM.
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