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Old 05-10-2010, 03:27 PM   #171
the_doc735
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"HOLD EVERYTHING!"

I've took all the bolts out of the sump and the haynes manual says: "unfortunately there is sealant used between the block and sump"...
Apparently, I can't pry them apart because it will damage the mating surfaces and cause leaks later on!!

What's wrong with a bloody gasket? [I ask you?].

So, does anyone know how to get this sump off without damages, breaks or cracks?

cheers!

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Old 05-10-2010, 04:25 PM   #172
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Cut a couple of about 1" wide pieces of ALUMINUM sheet metal, about 1/8" thick, and make a very sharp thin wedge (knife like) at one end. Pick a "likely" spot and slowly/gradually tap/work a wedge/wedges in enough (hopefully you'll see the gap increase) to get a thin knife in and feel for the sealant......try cutting any sealant that you encounter. Slowly work around.......just don't apply too much localized force. If you can find some sheet micarta (phenolic) material, it is really handy to use for this kind of thing (but the Al would still have to be used to "start". I'm sure these oil pans have been removed successfully by other people. "Gaskets" have pretty much gone the way of the Dodo.
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Old 05-10-2010, 06:29 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
Cut a couple of about 1" wide pieces of ALUMINUM sheet metal, about 1/8" thick, and make a very sharp thin wedge (knife like) at one end. Pick a "likely" spot and slowly/gradually tap/work a wedge/wedges in enough (hopefully you'll see the gap increase) to get a thin knife in and feel for the sealant......try cutting any sealant that you encounter. Slowly work around.......just don't apply too much localized force. If you can find some sheet micarta (phenolic) material, it is really handy to use for this kind of thing (but the Al would still have to be used to "start". I'm sure these oil pans have been removed successfully by other people. "Gaskets" have pretty much gone the way of the Dodo.
How about these?
https://www.sitebox.ltd.uk/product/d...-knife-blades/

Or this:
https://www.sitebox.ltd.uk/product/s...e-knife-250mm/

any good?

cheers!
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:57 PM   #174
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The aluminum wedges to start separating the pan from the block are something that you've got to pretty much fabricate for yourself. Hardware stores usually carry various aluminum stock in various thicknesses and widths.....which would be easier than dealing with sheet Al. 3/4" or 1" wide flat stock could be useful. Just buy a 3 ft. length of 1/8", or 3/16" and 1/4" thick if you can......all could be useful. They only need to be a couple of inches long so that you can handle them and tap them with with a small hammer. Too long and it'll bend. So it's basically a hack saw job and then belt sand or hand file the sharp wedge shape at the one end. You do have to wedge or lever the pan (you should feel some "springiness" as the sealant resists your wedges). You don't want to gouge or deeply score the pan or block flanges. The steel cutter blades as shown in the links would be OK for cutting/trimming the sealant only......not as a wedge. Are there any visible notches (even one or two) in the flange, or any external flange "lips" or "ears" that could be used for prying purposes?
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:22 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
The aluminum wedges to start separating the pan from the block are something that you've got to pretty much fabricate for yourself. Hardware stores usually carry various aluminum stock in various thicknesses and widths.....which would be easier than dealing with sheet Al. 3/4" or 1" wide flat stock could be useful. Just buy a 3 ft. length of 1/8", or 3/16" and 1/4" thick if you can......all could be useful. They only need to be a couple of inches long so that you can handle them and tap them with with a small hammer. Too long and it'll bend. So it's basically a hack saw job and then belt sand or hand file the sharp wedge shape at the one end. You do have to wedge or lever the pan (you should feel some "springiness" as the sealant resists your wedges). You don't want to gouge or deeply score the pan or block flanges. The steel cutter blades as shown in the links would be OK for cutting/trimming the sealant only......not as a wedge. Are there any visible notches (even one or two) in the flange, or any external flange "lips" or "ears" that could be used for prying purposes?
No, there are no visible notches etc.

Your thinnest suggestion was 1/8". I tried this after shaping to a point and it wouldn't even touch it and it's practically impossible to get 'a head on blow' with a hammer as there is no space to get a proper swing at it! SO the tool has to be sloping diagonally which doesn't help matters. The thinnest thing I could find was .009" single edged blades, they weren't long enough so they disappeared in between the block and sump - it was only a pack of 5 and tapped them in at the pulley end ~ similar to these http://www.bladesandknivesdirect.co....enser-93-p.asp. NOTHING THICKER WOULD GO IN THE SEAM!!! NOT ANYTHING!! Every so often there seems to be an obstruction like a 'dowel locating pin'? As for the back side of the sump ~ well I can't hardly see it - let alone insert something there - it's just impossible; so I only have the two ends and the front facing side of the sump to work on anyway! Chisel knifes, stanley knifes, palette knifes won't even touch it as the initial gap is far too small for that! ~ I got some silicone eater as well but obviously at this stage I can't squirt any into the gap because it's too small; only about .008". Could get some more .009" blades tomorrow and see if I can tap any more in at the front and gearbox end?

Come back Cortina all is forgiven!!

cheers!
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Old 05-11-2010, 07:58 PM   #176
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Can't you find an accessible area/spot to start.......like at the pulley end? You don't want to use a lot of brute force initially......just light taps.......the business end of these wedges have to have a very shallow/sharp (knife like) symetrical taper and obviously won't stand up to much bending near the end......straight in only. If you have to, make more wedges.......take your time. It's probably the high stength "grey" sealant........but it should eventually yield a little bit. (Easy for me to say!) The flange may be stepped as well so that you may not be able to drive anything in further than the distance of the flange edge distance. Can you not start one wedge in and then start to slide the other one "under" the first one and start to drive it in.....up and against the surface of the first wedge and into the flange splitline .......if you can imagine what I'm getting at. Maybe you can find some helpful info and photos by looking for some of your UK websites associated with the Focus and this engine. Haynes Manuals can leave a lot to be desired.
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Old 05-11-2010, 08:58 PM   #177
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Posted via FF MobileYamaha Cycles usually have prying bosses &/or intentionally mismatched areas for separating cases, why did they make it hard on you here.... To carry that further, look out for any possible reverse bolts (top down instead of bottom up) just in case.... Any threaded holes in the bottom that are empty or have short bolts that seem to do nothing? (removal jack bolt holes) On cycle cases, rubber mallet tapping along sealing areas (vertically, not sideways) and on strong areas (like vertical sections) was often the method to break the seal - solid sound at first, when you heard it start "tapping" you knew there was a gap starting to form. Tossing out all ideas here that work in particular cases - use what applies to yours as it`s hard to see & feel long distance!
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:03 PM   #178
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Supposedly the sealant used was Loctite 5900.......low strength, black in colour. As sailor has suggested, look for any jack screw holes. You ARE sure that you've got all the bolts removed......no bolts from the clutch/tranny housing? As far as your fabricated wedges.......make the business end a convex shape, still with the knife like edge but curved somewhat which might make it easier to start into the splitline. Also, radius the corners about a 1/4"......maintaining the knife edge profile.

Last edited by Grumpy; 05-11-2010 at 11:55 PM.
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:12 PM   #179
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How about using a hot air gun? The type used to remove paint. I have used such a thing to soften up epoxy to remove stuff.
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:34 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
Can't you find an accessible area/spot to start.......like at the pulley end? You don't want to use a lot of brute force initially......just light taps.......the business end of these wedges have to have a very shallow/sharp (knife like) symetrical taper and obviously won't stand up to much bending near the end......straight in only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_doc735 View Post
The thinnest thing I could find was .009" very sharp single edged blades, they weren't long enough so they disappeared in between the block and sump - it was only a pack of 5 and tapped them in at the pulley end ~ similar to these http://www.bladesandknivesdirect.co....enser-93-p.asp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
Can you not start one wedge in and then start to slide the other one "under" the first one and start to drive it in.....up and against the surface of the first wedge and into the flange splitline .......
...this is exactly what I did with the .009 very sharp single edged blades once I bought some more today. Thank you - very good suggestion - it worked!

I then banged in the thicker more flexible blades round the pulley end and front. I built them up in 4 layers - then used a stiff nylon plastic pry bar with no sharp edges to open it up enough for me to insert my finger tips and pull down on the sump till it gave way.





I still can't see the bent locking pin though? ~ There is something in the way across the bottom of the engine? SEE PICS:





cheers!
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