removal of crankshaft pulley bolt? - Page 12 - Focus Fanatics
Ford Focus Forum
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace


Go Back   Focus Fanatics > Ford Focus Tech Discussions > General Technical Chat

General Technical Chat This section is for technical discussions relating to general maintenance, electrical issues, engine trouble, and recalls.

Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
Ford Focus Tire & Wheels FocusFanatics Merchandise

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-08-2010, 06:41 PM   #111
the_doc735
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Fan#: 74469
Location: hull, United Kingdom
What I Drive: focus lx blue

Posts: 147
FF Reputation: 1 the_doc735 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
Slide the belt drive sprocket off the crankshaft.......then how about a photo. No key/keyway, correct? In my looking at some UK websites there was reference to some Zetecs including some 1.6s that did not have a keyed sprocket or pulley, and crankshaft......this is like our Duratec engines over here. The pulley and sprocket stack clampup force (probably partly explains the high bolt breakaway/loosening torque) is what maintains the correct "timing" position of the belt sprocket. Hoping that yours was keyed......this is a complication on reassembly/timing the cams, later. The pin problem.......can you rotate it at least one rotation? If you can (see if rotating/moving the crankshaft helps......this could also give you an idea on how badly bent it is), you could try lubing the pin/block threads liberally with oil and see if you can slowly work the pin out. Otherwise, it's oil pan removal.
It's a keyless pulley!

The cams are in the correct position. In this position are all the valves "fully home"/"fully seated" in the head? [i.e. not depressed]?

If I put a screw driver through No.1 spark plug hole and turn the crank over until the screw driver won't go any higher - is that TDC? After getting the bent locking pin out, surely I can still use the timing pin - even if the 'machined flat' is a little 'ramped off'?

I can't turn the crank one complete revolution [at the moment]!

OK - after I take the sump off [just remove the bolts - right?] and I can see the bent pin - what next?

cheers!
the_doc735 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-08-2010, 08:03 PM   #112
Grumpy
Focus Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Fan#: 43791
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
What I Drive: 2005 Sonic Blue ZX3

Posts: 868
FF Reputation: 28 Grumpy Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
This "keyless" design can be a real can of worms. When installed the camshaft timing tool is for locating the camshafts correctly when the #1 piston ONLY is at TDC on the compression stroke. All the valves for #1 cylinder will be closed......the other cylinders will have some valves partially open. You have the problem of those sheared off areas of the camshafts which are involved in locating the camshafts for timing (with the tool). Have you thought about what you are going to do with this issue? If you can't extract the bent timing pin then it'll have to be cut off after the oil pan is removed. This could actually be an advantage because it could make it a lot easier to hold the crankshaft when torquing the damn pulley bolt. Torquing the bolt and ensuring/maintaining the correct valve timing is a PITA with this keyless design. I didn't mean that the crankshaft was damaged. I doubt that the machined flat on the crankshaft was damaged enough to not use it for locating TDC. Don't force the crankshaft at this point until you check to see if a valve is nearly or fully open. Check to see if there are any cam lobe noses contacting any buckets........the camshafts could have rotated anywhere, I figure.
Grumpy is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2010, 08:16 PM   #113
iminhell
C2H5OH
 
iminhell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Fan#: 36222
Location: Darwin, MN
What I Drive: 2000 & 2001 ZX3's

Posts: 10,392
FF Reputation: 48 iminhell Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (4)
The broken ears on the cam are no big deal. Just use a adjustable wrench to hold the cam in place, looking to the alignment end to make sure it's right, and tighten them this way (should always be done this way BTW, less strain on the ears).

The compression stroke and what not ... doesn't matter. You're setting the compression stroke where you see fit. With our 2.0's you can run the cams 180* out of time and the car runs the same (obviously they both have to be out of time). This means the dead teeth on the flywheel will adjust (or the ECU will adjust). I assume the 1.4/1.6 and 1.8 are similar if not the same.

Basically just get #1 to the top and set the timing. Don't have to worry about anything else or 'oh crap, i moved the piston, now where was it again'.

I wouldn't use the timing pin. They are machined very exact. The screwdriver will work fine, may not be exact but you can adjust a bit if need be (cross that bridge when/if we get there).


I'm kinda curious why you can't rotate the engine 360* though. If the cam bar isn't in place the valve will 'center' and you should be able to rotate at will. If you can't it would sound like something is bent and hanging open or there is an obstruction somewhere. Best find it.


Just remember, tighten the timing tensioner before the cam gears.
__________________
Don't "think outside the box".
There is no box.
Do it correct, or do it twice.
iminhell is online now  
    Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2010, 08:40 PM   #114
Grumpy
Focus Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Fan#: 43791
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
What I Drive: 2005 Sonic Blue ZX3

Posts: 868
FF Reputation: 28 Grumpy Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
The crank is probably hung up on the pin. iminhell.......I don't think this has VCT, but there are other variants including interference versions of the 1.6. I hope it's only the bent pin......the camshaft "ears" broke because of loads imposed from attempting to loosen the pulley bolt free.......at some point the belt shredded. This job could be worse than a Duratec.
Grumpy is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2010, 08:56 PM   #115
sailor
"Elder"
 
sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Fan#: 57268
Location: Williamsville, NY
What I Drive: 2004 Pitch Black ZTS 2.3 5spd.

Posts: 12,648
FF Reputation: 64 sailor Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
iminhell has some good points at least if your cam sprockets are loose (adjustable) by free rotation after mounting bolt loosened as ours are..

I fear he missed the Timing Pin portion though, I was wondering myself if a discreet bit of tapping the opposite way by rotating the crank might free up the bent pin enough for removal. If it doesn't rotate freely right now of course the pan removal is the next step - IF ONLY to see what you're dealing with to resolve it with minimum further ado...

How did you like that POP when the tension finally released! The large head seating surface produced an amazing amount of "sticktion".

I was hoping for the easy removal of the stub, as I've had the same experience on a smaller scale before, with the same final result. (Cycle engines - Flywheel/charging rotor attachment)

Cheers to your patience & a good final outcome!
sailor is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2010, 09:35 PM   #116
Rabbitccc
Focus Addict
 
Rabbitccc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Fan#: 44508
Location: Lisbon, OH
What I Drive: 01 Blue SE / 09 Black Coupe SE

Posts: 1,009
FF Reputation: 28 Rabbitccc Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (32)
Wow, I'm really glad to see you got that off. Hope all goes well from here on out
__________________
o/_____\o
(8Oo)FORD(oO8)---SEDAN REVOLUTION
U_{=SR114=}_U----Upgrades In Profile
Rabbitccc is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2010, 11:38 AM   #117
Grumpy
Focus Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Fan#: 43791
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
What I Drive: 2005 Sonic Blue ZX3

Posts: 868
FF Reputation: 28 Grumpy Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
the_doc735........I sure wish that someone in Britain and familiar with the Euro Focuses had been able to help you from the start......but that's water under the bridge. Before going any further.......can you take a couple of photos of the engine including the camshaft sprockets/camshafts. Ford UK has caused nothing but confusion with their engine and car names. After looking at the UK websites again, I think this is the Zetec (Sigma) version with the connection to Yamaha.........aluminum block (looks like it in your photos) etc, correct?. I think you mentioned the engine code. Forget trying to extract the bent pin.......the oil pan will have be removed, I figure. A good inspection of the camshafts etc, and a "function" check of the valve operation probably should be next. But first, can you rotate (without any binding) the crankshaft enough so that there is no piston located within a couple of inches from the bottom of the spark plug threads?
Grumpy is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2010, 12:03 PM   #118
whynotthinkwhynot
Captain TMI
 
whynotthinkwhynot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Fan#: 18416
Location: the armpit of TN, Memphis, TN
What I Drive: 05 ZXW; 02 Windstar; 13 C-Max SEL

Posts: 20,090
FF Reputation: 270 whynotthinkwhynot Outstanding Standing Memberwhynotthinkwhynot Outstanding Standing Memberwhynotthinkwhynot Outstanding Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (1)
That crank sprocket looks toast to me, like it was loose or something. I've never seen one egged like that before. At the very least, I'd want to look at a new one before I put that one in to make sure it's supposed to look like that.

You're almost to the point where I'd want to have a salvage engine to swap in for that one mate. It might be your cheapest route if you start running into other problems.
__________________
Be eclectic.
---The Complete How-To Archive--

Moderating everything now, let me know if I can help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the user formerly known as ZX3_Chick View Post
You're special aren't you.
whynotthinkwhynot is online now  
    Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2010, 04:38 PM   #119
the_doc735
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Fan#: 74469
Location: hull, United Kingdom
What I Drive: focus lx blue

Posts: 147
FF Reputation: 1 the_doc735 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
today I mainly have a rest and watch formula One

I DID put the engine mount back on and remove the scissor jack that was supporting the engine from under the sump. Drained oil [leaving it to drip over night].


Removed all but two of the sump bolts [the remaining two are loose] for 'quick drop' tomorrow.


The crankshaft end is in very good condition, as is the internal thread. There is NO key[way].


The timing sprocket is also very good [only light surface rust] teeth are perfect - there is no key/slot/groove [i.e. it spins freely on the crank] BUT FITS SNUG with no tangible play noticeable or evident.

front


front


rear


rear


12 O'Clock position


3 O'Clock position


6 O'Clock position


9 O'Clock position


Also, cams appear to revolve fully and smoothly with no odd noises or exceptional stiffness anywhere. i.e. Resistance is in keeping with what you would expect to 'feel' on the spanner!

cheers!

PS: When I get the sump off tomorrow I will take pictures of the bent locking pin and 'put them up here' for your guidance.
the_doc735 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2010, 05:02 PM   #120
the_doc735
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Fan#: 74469
Location: hull, United Kingdom
What I Drive: focus lx blue

Posts: 147
FF Reputation: 1 the_doc735 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
This "keyless" design can be a real can of worms.
why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
When installed the camshaft timing tool is for locating the camshafts correctly when the #1 piston ONLY is at TDC on the compression stroke. All the valves for #1 cylinder will be closed......the other cylinders will have some valves partially open. You have the problem of those sheared off areas of the camshafts which are involved in locating the camshafts for timing (with the tool). Have you thought about what you are going to do with this issue?
I see! ~ ...and NO I haven't thought about it yet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
If you can't extract the bent timing pin then it'll have to be cut off after the oil pan is removed. This could actually be an advantage because it could make it a lot easier to hold the crankshaft when torquing the damn pulley bolt.
Oh yes ~ I see!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
Torquing the bolt and ensuring/maintaining the correct valve timing is a PITA with this keyless design.
Oh shit!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
I didn't mean that the crankshaft was damaged. I doubt that the machined flat on the crankshaft was damaged enough to not use it for locating TDC.
OK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy View Post
Don't force the crankshaft at this point until you check to see if a valve is nearly or fully open. Check to see if there are any cam lobe noses contacting any buckets........the camshafts could have rotated anywhere, I figure.
Have done ~ no cam lobe noses contacting any buckets. no fully open valves.
the_doc735 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks & Social Networks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:04 AM.


Copyright 2002-2014 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : Terms of Use : Privacy Policy : Advertise Information : Site Map

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Acura TLX or Fiesta ST. You can find all Ford Focus and Focus ST related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area.