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Old 03-07-2011, 02:00 AM   #31
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I get what your saying but your not 100% what its doing or what will happen thats why im still asking. Till i find out a for sure thats what the top sensor does or what happens if its removed and replaced with the wideband.

Ive read that that top sensor is not as sensative as a wideband sensor so how accurate can it be for setting the A/F? If its in a spot that runs 1000-1200 how can it survive?

They already make a sink for the wideband to put it into the manifold but they are WAY over priced. On the innovate forum they say its not the tip that is critical to heat its the base that needs to stay below 900F Thats where the sink comes in.

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Old 03-07-2011, 04:35 AM   #32
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Put your widedand in the 2nd bung hole location. When you get a tune that will disable the 2nd o2 so you don't trip a light. When emission testing day comes along. Swap your wideband back out for the OEM one. Then either flash back to stock or ask your tuner to send you file with the rear o2 ON. That will allow you to pass. I just went through that whole ordeal to pass emission in PA. The problem is when you turn the rear o2 off. The emission system goes into a "not ready" status. Due to that the guy at the emission place can't test the car. Swap the sensor, drive around a few miles (you need to so the system goes to a "ready" status) and get the test done. Now I have an 09, so I'm not sure how the earlier years work with their emission systems.
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:34 AM   #33
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Were you able to trust the wideband in that location PSUrivie, or did you have to use an offset in your tune? We know there is a catalist in there, but not where or how it is configured. I am 99% sure the exhaust manifold and emissions are the same from 05-11.
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Old 03-07-2011, 12:02 PM   #34
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I had the wideband in my stock mani-cat in the 2nd bung before I switched to a header. The wideband worked fine. I remotely tuned with it in that location, datalogged and everything.
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Old 03-07-2011, 12:17 PM   #35
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Well there ya go BowerR64. The man has done it and it works. No worries.

PSUrivie >> What wideband if you don't mind. AEM?
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:26 PM   #36
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I have the AEM it works really well. As for some of the earlier posts, you need the 1st o2 in that location. The ECU uses the inputs from that sensor. The 2nd sensor is just using a cat monitor which is just telling the ECU ithat the cat is doing it's job. So swapping if for your wideband isn't going to effect engine performance.

The wideband will be on of your best tools while tuning.
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:53 PM   #37
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Cool, thanks. Im not planning to get a tune for a few more weeks. Im going to just drive it with the CEL for a while with thewideband in that location.

Did you put a heatsink or anything on your sensor in the second location?
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Old 03-07-2011, 02:41 PM   #38
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Nope just swapped it out.
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Old 03-07-2011, 11:19 PM   #39
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Here is a post i got from the innovate site, tell me what you think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emsvitil View Post
It's a 3way Cat. 3way cats are comprised of 2 half converters.

First half is a reduction cat for NOx.
Second half is a oxidation cat for HC and CO.
The first half helps supply O2 for the 2nd half.

First bung is before the cat does anything.
2nd bung is after the reduction phase.
3rd bung is after the oxidation phase.

So with the 3 locations you can figure out how each half of the cat is working.


If the middle isn't for a O2 sensor, it could be used for a temp sensor to avoid overheating the converter.
Then another user,

Quote:
Originally Posted by SprungSonde View Post
All KAT's, especially the one using NBOs, are Three-Way-KAts because the process three not allowed emissions that's why the was called Three-Way-KAT.
Rest-Fuel and CO, combusted, NOx reduced, that happens in parallel.
For the Warm-Up-Phase after an Cold-Start some Car's use Start CAT's having an slightly other composition because the Emissions are rich at Warm-Up condition.


Interesting is this for sure?

#1 an NBO2 can Control best efficiency of the KAT.
#2 can be an WBO2 to Tune for rich and lean.
#3 an NBO2 is the Monitor Sensor for OBD.

That's how I think it work.
Different Countries have different Emission restrictions, so it seems possible that Ford use different Sensors in the three Bungs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SprungSonde View Post
All EFI's using NBO2's do all the AFR controlling only to make the KAT happy.
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:01 PM   #40
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VERY interesting. A 3-way cat. Never woulda thunk it. I have no clue as to what kind we have though and the effect on the wideband. But, I would think this would be valid >> The ECU maintains a 14.1 lambda when closed (input from MAF and 1st o2 sensor). OK. So if you are running good fuel, and you don't have a lot of miles on the car (I.E. the cat is in good shape. I have no idea how to statistically age a cat though). Then IF, your A/F gauge is reported 14.1 A/F ratio, then I would conclude the effects of the very 1st cat (within the mani-cat) has negligible effect. That would be MOST interesting to know.
Good info there from innovate. Nie job!
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